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Sophita
The Wee Kitty Grand Duke Defense Brigade
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 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I don't think those words really have any place in a secular government like the United States of America has. The constitution itself says no mixing of the churches and the states, and well, I think that's pretty clear cut myself. Considering those things were only put on in times of duress when people were desperate for rallying cries to bond around (and religion so often is), I'm not exactly why they're there as anything but archiac references to the past today.
Take 'em out. No one's persecuting Christians if they do; if anything it evens the field instead of just limiting it to a monotheistic God. If she wants to have religious sayings up on a building, she should go to a church, not a courthouse.
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Thor McOdin
Stupid Sexy Flanders!
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Sure! Go right ahead and erect Commandments and things of the sort...just as long as a copy of the Constitution is displayed in every church, mosque, synagogue, etc. throughout the country.
Honestly, a few words don't scare me. What does scare me is the assimilation of government and religion when that was clearly not the intent of the Founding Fathers. After all, Franklin was a frequent guest of the Hellfire Club's irregular meetings; a group of men that gathered to poke fun at religion and things of the sort. Their motto? "Do what thou wilt." |
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Ashley Riot
The Queensguard
Joined: 20 May 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| hawkthanatos wrote: |
Did anyone hear about the guy who jumped into the lion enclosure at the zoo saying "God will save me, if he exists"?
...he was mauled to death by a lioness. |
Poor guy, but although I hate to speak ill of the dead, apparently he didn't think too long on what that rather emphatic biblical insistence that you not put God to the test actually means.
Anyway, if you'll allow this humble Los Angeles boy to don the cape and cowl of Captain Obvious for a moment...this woman is missing the point of the founding fathers' ideals. Although our references to God are traditional and thus people are more reluctant to let go of them, it's no small fraction of the United States that's pressuring the nation to remain purely secular, as it should. This does not entail state atheism (we wouldn't be changing it to "in no God we trust" or anything), it's not a sign of oppression against Christians or Muslims or theists of any kind- it's just an acknowledgement that we are all different, but united despite those differences. THAT is an ideal anyone should be able to support.
Some of us don't see anything there, some of us do, some of us aren't sure. In the United States, that's supposed to be okay. And if the phrase is infringing on the neutrality that our government's supposed to take in issues like religion, then let's get rid of it.
I'm pretty sure the guys who finally get the guts to up and do this sort of thing are going to be largely unpopular in a few states (more than a few, really), granted, but it's the right thing to do.
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zincbrain
Uttuku
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Money is money no matter if it does or doesn't say in god we trust though I it would be better if they just took it off because what does God have to do with the monetary system.
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Eden
Private Godwin Army
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: |
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I don't know about the man who became a lion's meal, but it was a strange test if the incident happened this way. God didn't rescue his own son and Jesus didn't want to fly as he was challenged, becausehis father wouldn't help him. Okay, maybe he would have helped, but there is nothing won by trying.
Anyway, although it would be silly to change the phrase into "in no god we trust", but rather "in ourselves we trust". I admit that I was never in the USA, but this impression can't be completely wrong.
I don't want to sound too polemic, but keeping this phrase because it is a tradition sounds like we could have kept the separation or apartheid or whatever name you have for it. I know this is offensive and I confess that I don't want to be rude to anyone who has another opinion. My reason for this believing is that you could still let the coloured people use their own rooms, schools and places inside the bus. You don't have to hurt them physically, but I believe that this is at least a rather similiar situation as if your government gives an impression of the right believings to people with another faith...
As I said, I don't want to be offensive and I hope you know me good enough to be aware of this. I don't think or suggest with this statement that people who don't care or want to keep the phrase we are talking about are racists.
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