Suikoden Utopian and Illegal Kibbutz Orgazmic Xperience

Suikox Home | The Speculation Shelter | Tablet of Stars | Suikoden Timeline | Suikoden Geography |Legacies


  [ View Profile | Edit Profile | Nation System | Members | Groups | Search | Register | Check PMs | Log in | FAQ ]

Lucretia as a tactition *SPOILERS*
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Character Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
poorguy171




Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Post Count: 419
Location: Wisconsin, USA
91805 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Lucretia as a tactition *SPOILERS* Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We've been having a discussion at the GameFAQs boards about whether Lucretia is a good tactition or not, and I feel like I'm the only one defending her! Here's the two sides:

THEM: A lot of people are saying that she had very weak and predictable strategies, and the only real "strategy" she used was just predicting the future. She seemed to always know exactly what the enemy was doing, despite Gizel's tactics. And she seemed to know everything about everyone, even though she hadn't even been born in Falena. The biggest complaint is that she seems like a psychic, and always perfectly predicts the outcome.

ME: I felt she had some great strategies. Lowering the water in the Feitas river to get the enemy stuck in debris, turning the tables on Salum Barows' little Armes plan, evacuating the castle and sending a decoy to Raftleet, having the dwarves/beavers use the ancient sluice gates, and more. She was able to use these tactics because of her knowledge of Falena, which she probably learned from her 10 years in spending there. Considering that she's been studying in Harmonia for many years, and then spent at least 10 years as a tactition in Falena, it only makes sense that she would be able to use such tactics.

And as for predicting the Godwin's plans, that's quite understandable. They didn't have a genius tactition on their side like Leon or Albert, who caused a lot of losses in their respective games. The only tactition the enemy had was Gizel, who was basically just an educated man who liked "playing games." Most of their moves were rather predictable in the first place, and the unpredictable moves were unseen by Lucretia (like the Godwins using the Sun Rune to destroy the dam; she had expected Sialeeds to do it, or how Godwin had stopped the Dragon Cavalry from acting). Plus, it's not like the entire Prince's army just sat in the castle all the time. I'm sure they had scouts and spies out.

So, what are people's thoughts? Is she just an overrated psychic, or a military genius? And Sars, I especially want to hear your thoughts. I know you said (at least when Suikoden V first came out) that Lucretia is your favorite character.
_________________


Last edited by poorguy171 on Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
hotspot

Dawlight


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Post Count: 261
Location: Falena
147042 Potch
53 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

She's the best tactitian in suikoden, It was her idea to move from the castle when childerich would attack and if you stay and defend something bad happens.

spoiler:
roy goes to heaven ! end :

The other strategists would probabally had a different response!
Lucretia is pure genius!
_________________
Suiko-Kya-Cross
It's a forum about the Suikoden, Chrono and Kya Dark Lineage games. series.
http://suiko-kya-cross.tk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
EggMan

Ordo Lusus


Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Post Count: 911
Location: Pind
167874 Potch
250 Soldiers
180 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
THEM: A lot of people are saying that she had very weak and predictable strategies, and the only real "strategy" she used was just predicting the future. She seemed to always know exactly what the enemy was doing, despite Gizel's tactics. And she seemed to know everything about everyone, even though she hadn't even been born in Falena. The biggest complaint is that she seems like a psychic, and always perfectly predicts the outcome.


Knowing everything possible about the people of a nation is important as a tactician. Since she knew as much as she did she was able to do a good job. Just because you know a lot about a person doesn't make you psychic. Psychologist's can tell a lot about a person just in one meeting and tell you what kind of choices that person would make about certain things. Maybe Lucretia was just really good at reading people and while she was working for Falena she would have been able to talk to a lot of the people that played a role in the game. Plus I think she was still studying the people and politics of Falena while she was in prison through Lelei and Cius.
_________________

"I think we are blind. Blind people who can see, but do not see."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
hotspot

Dawlight


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Post Count: 261
Location: Falena
147042 Potch
53 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maybe she was just gifted with the ESP rune!! :*you should; excessive use/abuse of emoticons is against the rules*
She just thinks faster than others.( am i right or am i right?!)
_________________
Suiko-Kya-Cross
It's a forum about the Suikoden, Chrono and Kya Dark Lineage games. series.
http://suiko-kya-cross.tk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Justice Johnny

Crimson Grass


Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Post Count: 5950
Location: Sawgrass Landing
1177898 Potch
114 Soldiers
940 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's not that she's psychic. She is just that smart, and I don't think her wits are that of the astronomical rank that it is unfeasible and unbelievable. She's been in Falena for about eight years now, and she has spent two of it in prison, where she really had not much to do, so she probably gathered more facts for herself.

Also, let's remember that Lady Merces served under Lord Godwin as a tactician, so no doubt she has an idea on how he would act. Also, it's not that farfetched as well that, as you mentioned, she had some spies to check up on enemy status.

She also has some prowess in logical thinking that she almost accurately assesses how people act. She basically used her knowledge of the Falenan geography and history, as well as the people to her advantage so that she could formulate her brilliant strategies.

Obviously, I stand by "military genius".
_________________
"Oranges can't fit into circles because rectangles are made of cheese."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VikiFanatic

Keepers of Balance


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Post Count: 4388
Location: Tatara Mountains
841792 Potch
0 Soldiers
760 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Obviously, I stand by "military genius".


I have to agree with that. It doesn't mean that she's psychic at all. She did explain before that she knows so much because Lelei and Cius told her all about outside world. Being a woman who knew the possibilities and decisions one can make at times like that, she can infer the answer to what will happen next.

Sometimes, even simple math or statistics can help in things like that. She is also knowledgeable about everything in the boundaries of Falena. It's natural for her then to infer what places would be best toattack at times like this and that's how she can say whwich ones are under a bigger threat. There's nothing psychic about that, it's all about the facts.

That's why i admire Lucretia. Since she's able to know what will happen based on such limited facts. ^^
_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Scrooge McDuck

The Flying Duckmen


Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Post Count: 1319
Location: Valley of the Winds
885377 Potch
161 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lucretia had the ability to predict what the opposing force's plans, added with strong instincts that would only come from years of strategic experience. That is the most important skill strategist should possess, not the ability to create a magnificent, unpredictable strategy with a low chance of success (Shu's fire strategy comes to mind). A war is a race to outpredict the opponent, and Lucretia excelled the art. Predictable as her strategies may be, they were always two steps in front of the enemy. That is all that matters.

Also, she is not the "psychic strategist" as many people seem to label her. She admitted it herself that she was wrong in predicting what Sialeeds would do, therefore making the Lymsleia-kidnapping campaign a failure.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Sage

The Invincible Weeds


Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Post Count: 15653
Location: Blight's Bay
803820 Potch
0 Soldiers
2 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If the US were to predict where and when Osama would be and then capture him, would you call them psychic or that they knew what they were doing for once? At first glance, it's easy to label her as having some sort of supernatural power to predict the future since most things worked out perfectly. Note how I said most things. They did say that her tactics were perfect during the Armes invasion before Suikoden V's event did they not? Everytime they listened to her, they won. Were these people at gamefaqs who proclaim her to be psychic expecting your own group to lie to you?

I can imagine it now. Georg and Sialeeds decide to play a prank on the prince. They'll have him go and bust some totally idiotic woman who doesn't know the difference between her elbow and a hole in the ground out of prison and they'll call her a "master strategist." It'll be a riot.

Others have already brought up points about how she could be how good she was, so I won't. I just thought this needed a good dose of sarcasm.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Ujitsuna

Red Shoes Dance


Joined: 24 May 2006
Post Count: 4823
Location: Pale Plains
936547 Potch
12000 Soldiers
675 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scrooge McDuck wrote:
Lucretia had the ability to predict what the opposing force's plans, added with strong instincts that would only come from years of strategic experience. That is the most important skill strategist should possess, not the ability to create a magnificent, unpredictable strategy with a low chance of success (Shu's fire strategy comes to mind). A war is a race to outpredict the opponent, and Lucretia excelled the art. Predictable as her strategies may be, they were always two steps in front of the enemy. That is all that matters.


He was up against Leon Silverberg. :P

Scrooge McDuck wrote:
Also, she is not the "psychic strategist" as many people seem to label her. She admitted it herself that she was wrong in predicting what Sialeeds would do, therefore making the Lymsleia-kidnapping campaign a failure.


Yeah she did make a mistake, it's just that in the game, it doesn't seem that she gets any blame for it and completely distances herself from the fault (which I guess is a sign of a good tactition). Shes good, but in some situations such as knowing that the gladiators have broken out and attacked Godwin's forces during the attack on Stormfist, it gets a bit farfetched at points, to me, anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
poorguy171




Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Post Count: 419
Location: Wisconsin, USA
91805 Potch
0 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wes wrote:
Yeah she did make a mistake, it's just that in the game, it doesn't seem that she gets any blame for it and completely distances herself from the fault (which I guess is a sign of a good tactition). Shes good, but in some situations such as knowing that the gladiators have broken out and attacked Godwin's forces during the attack on Stormfist, it gets a bit farfetched at points, to me, anyway.


In that case maybe. But later in the game, she even admits that she was wrong about the strategist never apologizing in public (it was after the whole Sialeeds event IIRC).
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Flamo Bringer

Flamo-chan


Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Post Count: 2257
Location: Werewolves Den
11929 Potch
150 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

To me, she was alright...
but still, i think the Silverbergs are still better than her :D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Suzume

White Wind Brigade


Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Post Count: 187
Location: Tatara Mountains
205407 Potch
1 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was never able to personally like Lucretia as much as I hoped I would, but I think she was quite a talented tactician. She surprised me with all the things she was able to figure out- actually I was very impressed with her. I liked the plans that used the rivers...such a good use of terrain...
_________________

Grasslands National Banana Appreciation Month!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Firefly

Wednesday's Army


Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Post Count: 471
Location: Gaien
20952 Potch
328 Soldiers
225 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The problem, IMHO, with Lucretia is that she was TOO good of a strategist. She seemed to know EVERYTHING in advance, way more so than other Suikoden tacticians, so it just cheapened the experience for me. BTW, I absolutely loved her as a character, I loved her theme song, her look, her personality... I just wish she wasn't so damn good!

That's the reason why Shu has remained my favourite. He was good, he could predict the enemies moves and whatnot, but he still failed sometimes and even had to leave things up to chance (the fire card). That to me brought a lot of depth and realism to his character. Lucretia just kept me wondering WTF ESP??

edit: Post # 108 :)
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Ashley Riot

The Queensguard


Joined: 20 May 2005
Post Count: 89
Location: Queendom of Falena
20000 Potch
50 Soldiers
0 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was personally glad she was so overwhelmingly competent. More importantly, she let the hero decide what course of action he would take, then stood by his decision, even if she thought there were a better option.

However, that also ties into my only complaint about her: we never find out what her goals are. What they really are, I mean. The game makes such a big deal out of her possibly turning on the Prince if he makes a bad decision, but she doesn't, even if you choose to defend the Castle (and likely suffer the horrific losses she predicted). And she never flat-out says she's just helping the Prince because she likes Falena. Then she just up and leaves at the end of the game, never to be heard from again.

Maybe I'm just getting tired of enigma in Suikoden. Build up too many questions and you're running a big risk of hyping the answers- if you even get to them. :oops:
_________________

"I've been shown a lifetime of oddities in a day." -- Ashley Riot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Delsaber

New Gaien Wildcards


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Post Count: 1822
Location: Oukizato
132495 Potch
1660 Soldiers
2625 Nation Points

PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

She's no Shu with the FIRE CARD OF DOOM~!, but I'd still take her over most of the other Suikoden strategists. Apple seemed to progress more as a historian than a tactician between I and III. Ceaser appeared to sleepwalk though most of the war and his involvement was actually fairly limited compared to the others. Elenor was merely competent. Leon and Albert could both probably out-maneuver Lucretia, although not without a great deal of collateral damage. In my book, that puts her in the upper tier along with Mathiu and Shu, but I do admit that I'd rather replay Suikoden V just to be completely sure of that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic     Forum Index -> Character Discussion All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
suikox.com by: Vextor


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
  Username:    Password:      Remember me