Our health care is better than your health care

[Arcana]

Canadians healthier than Americans, study says

This is not new, but it is recent. A recent study performed by the Harvard Medical School has reviewed the quality of health of people in Canada to the quality of health of people in the United States.

In an interview with one of the researchers on CTV, she specifically said that it was dangerous for Canada to go down the path of privitization, and told Canadians not to adopt a health care system like the US, as it ends up costing more money, and returning fewer results. She advised that, to more results from the public health care system, that more money can be iinvested to reduce wait times and to make more doctors available.

The article itself (which I have not read) appears here. You need a subscription to access it though, which is likely available from a University library (if you access it within their network).

So is this good ammunition against the trend of privatization of health care? Is the American system truly bad? Do Americans here purposely avoid regular medical checkups on the fear that it will cost too much?

Health care is a sensitive issue to many Canadians. Is it a big issue for Americans as well?
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Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28.

[Sage]

Health care is mostly a big issue for Americans who cannot afford it...which is a lot of us. The American way of dealing with things as a whole is that we visit a doctor when something is wrong, not on a regular basis. Money may be an issue, but I believe it's not the primary reason, at least for me personally. The fact I can't really afford to is one of the lesser reasons. "Why should I go in and see a doctor when I feel healthy?" is the general idea. This is probably brought on by years of it costing us an arm and a leg (no puns intended) though. There are several advertising campaigns out there now in the US trying to get people to go in for various regular medical screenings.

As for when we're actually sick and need to see a doctor, then yes, it's the money usually that keeps us from going. If I feel like it'll blow over and I'll be better in a week or it appears to be getting better on its own, even slowly, then I won't go to the doctor. No point in seeing them and hearing that I just have a bad head cold, for example. However, I am biased since my mother is a registered nurse and for years told me to "tough it out."
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[Takemura]

Awesome. go canada! woo.

I wanted to go to the hospital at like 10:00 pm cuz i was having chest pains Pretty baddly but I HAD To wait Almost ALL night in the god dang Waiting room. I got there at 10:00pm and left at 4:00 am It was crap But free. So the only downside of canada's health care.

turns out i pulled a muscle in my chest. weird.
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[Cedric]

Well . . . I'm one of the lucky ones, I guess. There are at least 8 nurses in my immediate family and first degree families. My mother is a Nurse Practitioner. The other friends I hang with are now LVN's. An aunt is a pharmacist. We know an Orthodontist and an optometrist. And for all I know it's probably bigger than that. There's a huge network going on. If we can't get what we need, we ask another family friend, and it's done just like that. It surprises me sometimes.

The kids of my family are stressed into the medical field. Unusually enough, most of them turned out liking the hardship they had to go through. Most of us like biology, chemistry, and all those subjects needed to excel in healthcare. I'm not into it as much as they are. I'd rather be writing.

Mom constantly calls me up to go to her clinic to get the latest flu shot and routine checkup. I go in, wait about 15 minutes, get the stuff done, and then get out. I feel kind of bad going in before the other people waiting in the office. That's the perks, though.

I do agree that healthcare in particular is a problem with other people that I know. There isn't an easy way to take care of it, though.
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[Scott]

Well. Thanks to recent..revisions to Health Care, My Grandmother now has to find a way to Shell out $550 a month for the medicine she will DIE without. Bet you rHospitals are better than ours are too.So, yeah. I'm pretty Sure Canada's Health Care IS better.

..I wanna go to Canada. ;.;
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To relive those Halcyon days of youth

[Queen]

It's no secret that the U.S. Government is only out for its own. The working class constantly get the shaft as far as benefits go. We don't make enough to afford private insurance or poor enough for welfare.

Then there's the case of my grandparents where disability paid squat, and SS even less.(just more consistant)

My grandpa's last hospital stay cost him over $1000 dollars, and that was just for being in the room for one night.

Are there any hotels that charge $1000 dollars a night for a single bed?
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[EggMan]

Its good to have it proven, but I've always thought that Canada had a better health care system than us. A national system that covers everyone is definately better than some people not being able to pay for it because some doctor has to pay a lot of money just to cover his malpractice.

[Arcana]

Well, the Canadian system is rife with potential waits, which really pisses Canadians off, in general. I think some people are at the stage where they think that they should be able to trade time for money like you can in many other services. If you pay more for a courier, you can get a package shipped faster. If you pay more for a direct flight, you get to your destination faster. Why shouldn't you be able to pay and get treatment faster?

I think a big fear of Canadians is that people will start getting different levels of care. Wait times is one thing, but the idea of differing quality levels is another thing. Few Canadians want to see a system where you pay to get better care than someone else. Some fears include the fear that doctors will only serve private clinics and that many of them will sit around with nothing to do since they serve rich people whereas the second-rate doctors serve all of the "poor people".

I believe Taiwan has a different economic model where the doctors and nurses and the care is generally the same, but you can pay money and do things like skip wait queues and rent private hopsital rooms. So even though your doctor is the same doctor who treats the poor person, you can pay $400 a night to get a private room that looks like it came out of a 5-star hotel.
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Woo, 2000 posts as of Tuesday, 2007 August 28.

[fuji]

Doesn't Alberta have a hybrid system? I'm not sure though.

Our health care rocks. We get taxed like crazy for it, but it's a great system. Only knowing a bit about the US system, I'm glad I live in Canada. I'm not sure what other countries health care system are like, though I'm sure some have free health care. I wonder what they have done to address the waits.

Spending 8 hours in the emergency ward waiting to get your broken arm set is a test of patience. 2 months for an MRI is too long and maternity ward is still way to slow in getting rooms for pregnant mothers.

A lot of our problems may stem from the lax rules in place before. People would fly to Canada to give birth to their child, thus granting their child free health care. The parent(s) would then fly back with their Canadian born child to wherever they live. Likewise, many people had immigrated for free health care, of that I am sure.

It's only been the last 5-10 years that they've begun putting stops to those kinds of exploitations. I believe you have to have lived in Canada for a certain amount of time and I'm sure there are other restrictions. I don't know them however as I've never needed to look into them.

All the problems we have, I still consider our health care one of the greatest benefits to being a Canadian.
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______ "We're still flying"

___ "That's not much"

"It's enough"

[Elzamine]

I'm Canadian too, and yeah we actually have a really nice health care system. We do get taxed prety hard for it, but it's really nice to know if something goes wrong we have something to fall back on.

It sucks when you get stuck in a waiting room for hours at a hospital though. I find the doctors office runs super easy, since it's all done in appoints and such. Clinics are busy, but that's expected. It's just stupid people who go to the emergency room for a head cold or something and waste the doctors time. Yes.. you have a head cold, here's some advil, go home. Oy.

All in all though, the system is still a pretty good idea and wonderful benefit.
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-My DeviantArt-

[Lunarblade]

Sorry, but I totally disagree with the ideas in this topic. An inefficient, expensive public health care system is not the type I want in my country. Nevermind the fact that for those in America who do have insurance are surely receiving better care than under any public health system. While I cannot read the article in question since I do not have a subscription, I sense that most of the reasons behind the worse health of Americans is that many of us just don't take care of ourselves. Example: Look at the obesity rate, if people actually sucked it up and got it under control there would be far fewer problems.

The government has no responsibility to provide health care for its citizens, with the exception of the extremely disabled who cannot find work and have appropriately higher expenses. I have no intention to take a massive tax hike and see worse health care in return.

Plus, the idea that the Harvard doctor insists that the public health care system remain in Canada reeks of political maneuvering. Harvard is stationed right at the ..let's say left-of-center stronghold on the east coast of the US. Liberals in the US have been clamoring for a public health care system for years, despite its many faults. If Canada, the "shining beacon" of wasted tax money and big-government spending in North America were to get rid of their public health care system, there would be no chance of America getting public health care.

SUMMARY: My tax dollars will never go to a public health care system. I'd like to choose my own, thank you.
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[Arcana]

[Lunarblade]

In response to Arcana: the obesity thing was an example, and the obesity rates between boys is not the only rate I was talking about (re: adults). But the point is moot. Take a look at this article, from a British source.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/Canada.pdf (don't worry, it's safe)

Some of the more interesting tidbits...

[Tony Stark]

In America, when you're in a serious traffic accident, and you are in a condition, unless you have insurance, hospitals will only stabalize you, and cannot actively try to make you better. This seems very wrong to me. I think if you have a bullet in your lung, regardless of whether you have health insurance, you should be treated. I am not in favor of those who do not have money, dying.

In ethics, we talked about Peter Singer. His basic ideology was that not helping a kid right next to you who is dying is the exact same thing as not helping someone far away starving or whatnot. He thought it was man's obligation to help other man regardless of kinsmanship, and to send all money that you do not need to other countries with starving, poor and sick. Of course, this is the same man who completely follows speciesism; the idea that killing a cow and a man is basically the same thing.

I do not fully agree with Singer, but there is some sense in what he says. I think we should try help everyone, regardless of status or kinsmanship. But, to have the money to help others, you have to spend more money bettering yourself. In a modern economy, at least. If we send all our money overseas the economy suffers.

But, I'm getting off-topic. The point is, people deserve Health Care. I am unsure though if the American Economy can support it. I think we should cut some other programs for it, but some of those are popular programs supported by Wealthy constituents. I also think that there are complexes, similar to a Miltary-Industral complex, that prevent it.

I think most Americans want Universal Healthcare, but they think it is stupid because our economy cannot support it.
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[Arcana]

Lunarblade, interesting read, although it does not match up to a study of quantitative standard as the Harvard one. The article only argues using reason and is unfortunately not comparative like the Harvard one. I think that is the main draw of the Harvard study above. It is a comparative, quantitative study and does more than attempt to argue the facts based on historical trends and spending trends.