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The Official Pesmerga/Yuber Thread
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: The Official Pesmerga/Yuber Thread Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Every forum must have this thread to ward off evil spirits. Anyhow, this is where all Pesmerga Yuber discussions should ideally go. That way people will have an easier time finding info. Anyhow, I'll get some info off of the old Pesmerga/Yuber thread from my old crap forum.

Some facts--

1) In an interview for Suikoden 1 done with Yoshitaka Murayama, the director of Genso Suikoden, was asked whether Yuber and Pesmerga have same faces. He said "Yes, they have same faces." Then, Junko Kawano, who was the Main Designer for the Genso Suikoden series said, "I drew them differently at first, but then I was told that I could make them look a lot more alike."

2) "V Jump" from 1996 had info on Yuber and Pesmerga, saying they were both users of the "Crimson Sword, a magical sword imbued with runic power."

3) They are both not human.

4) Yuber has the Eightfold/Hachifusa/Yafusa Rune (and the Eight Devil Rune). Yafusa may be based on a quasi-divine dog from the Japanese novel, Satomi Hakkenden, which is a story loosly based on Shui Hi Zhuan (SUikoden is loosly based on Shui Hu Zhuan).

5) Yuber is a summoned being (once by Leon Silverberg, next by Albert Silverberg)


Other Speculations--

Rune Angels said:
Quote:
Maybe Yuber is Pesmerga's shadow and it ran away or something? I seem to remember a hindu legend similar to that, but it's been around a year since I last read anything about hinduism.


Chaos said:
Quote:
I just had an epiphany (sp?), although I may be a little late, most of you have probably already thought of this. Anyways, according to Blue Moon's bio on Pesmerga, his name means "he who chases after death" in Kurdish, and Pesmerga is chasing after Yuber. Coincidence? Maybe. But I've got another question: does Yuber's translate into anything related?

Also, is there any information on whether Pesmerga, like Yuber, is possibly immortal (meaning he can't die by natural causes... or by aging to be specific)? I've been pondering this for a while, maybe that Pesmerga is a member of a brotherhood of Black Knights, chasing after Yuber because he stole the Hachifusa Rune, which belonged to the brotherhood's leader... then again, too Sierra-Neclordish, nevermind.

I guess, instead of that, maybe the brotherhood is chasing after Yuber for unknown reasons, such as just something to do when they're bored. Grade-A speculation though, but just some thoughts I had....



Kornholio said:
Quote:

Yuber doesn't care about destruction. Notice how he deserts both Scarlet Moon and Highland when it looks like they are losing? He could destroy stuff at that point, but "his contract ran out", so he just cares about money. After all, he's a mercenary.


Revolving Spear said:
Quote:
Yes, it is just as you said KoRnholio. Yuber is a mercenary and mercenaries work for money. When the money runs out so does their services. Although, a mercenary will not risk his life to meet a contract. That is why Yuber left the battle field when he saw that the Scarlet Moon Empire would lose. Same principal is seen in Suikoden 2. Besides, Luca's motive was not to destroy the world, but to get revenge against the people of the City-State Alliance who were responsible for what happened to his mother, at least that is what I believe.

This may not be new info, but I do believe it has some relevance. Has anyone thought about the significance of Pesmearga's Counter Rune? I mean, there is no other Counter Rune is existence, at least to my knowledge there isn't. So where did he get it? This has been bothering me for awhile now.


Lord Zoric said:
Quote:
Yuber used to work for Nightmare Enterprises as a janitor, and Pesmerga was the original salesman for N.M.E. and the true power behind the N.M.E. is the eightfold rune, due to their emphasis on monsters. Yuber stole it one day right under Pesmerga's nose. And Pesmerga was fired because of his laxness with security. He was so mad that he followed Yuber, the only thing was that he had been in nightmare world so long that he had become part nightmare himself. that explains not eating and not making noise etc. but Pes has yet to catch Yuber so far...


So we really don't know much about them.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think most people tend to assume that they have a much greater connection than they really do. I mean, Pesmerga doesn't seem to know all that much about Yuber, all he really knows is that he is associated in some way with Neclord. They are probably of the same race and are from the same city/planet/realm/whatever but that's probably about it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: The Official Pesmerga/Yuber Thread Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

SARSadmin wrote:
Chaos said:
Quote:
I just had an epiphany (sp?), although I may be a little late, most of you have probably already thought of this. Anyways, according to Blue Moon's bio on Pesmerga, his name means "he who chases after death" in Kurdish, and Pesmerga is chasing after Yuber. Coincidence? Maybe. But I've got another question: does Yuber's translate into anything related?

Also, is there any information on whether Pesmerga, like Yuber, is possibly immortal (meaning he can't die by natural causes... or by aging to be specific)? I've been pondering this for a while, maybe that Pesmerga is a member of a brotherhood of Black Knights, chasing after Yuber because he stole the Hachifusa Rune, which belonged to the brotherhood's leader... then again, too Sierra-Neclordish, nevermind.

I guess, instead of that, maybe the brotherhood is chasing after Yuber for unknown reasons, such as just something to do when they're bored. Grade-A speculation though, but just some thoughts I had....


In response to, uh, my own post, I believe it was said that Yuber's name translated into 'Shade' or 'Shadow', or something like that.

There was also something alchemical dealing with his rune, I believe. Something about the Eightfold Flower representing balance while the Ninefold Flower represents the opposite (or was it the other way around?). Based on that, there was speculation as to what rune, if any, Pesmerga holds.

Was all that disproved or just not mentioned? I haven't been keeping up with this stuff at all recently.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That post was from a rather early time--probably sometimes in 2001. That thread had 399 replies that spanned 3 years, so I am sure there's a lot more info in there that one can get.

As far as alchemical symbolism, it depends on the culture. In Daoist alchemy, 8 is the highest yin numeral, while 9 is the highest yang numera. Yin would be chaos, while yang--order.

Eightfold can also be based on the quasi-divine dog Yafusa from the Shui Hu Zhuan-inspired Nansou Satomi Hakkenden novel. A dog who supposedly impregnated a princess, who ended up giving birth to 8 gems inscribed with the 8 virtues of confucianism. These gems become the heroes of Satomi.
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was really disapointed that pesmerga WASENT in suiko 3. Has a reason been given?
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well if he was in Suikoden 3 he would have been right next to Yuber and I dont think Konami wants Pesmerga to have Yuber that accessible to him at this point hehe I really wanted to see Fumi Ishikawa's Suikoden 3 design of Pesmerga were he in it too :( Do you think he'll be in Suikoden 4? I really hope so! I'm assuming he must know something about Yuber since he seems dead set on hunting him down so there must be an underlying reason ;)

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Pesmerga: "Hmmm. I thought that if I pursued Neclord, I'd run into Yuber."
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Eggith Cyrene wrote:
I was really disapointed that pesmerga WASENT in suiko 3. Has a reason been given?


He was probably hot on Neclord's trail. And considering Neclord was dead and nowhere near Yuber, I'd say that trail was a dead end.

Or let's see, In Suikoden he was at Neclord's castle, in Suikoden II he was where the Star Dragon Sword was kept, so maybe in Suikoden III he was hanging out with Viktor?

All in all, I'd say Pesmerga isn't the best tracker in the world...
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I posted in that topic a lot. I was going by Chaos back then, and I sorta remember posting several off-the-wall or nonsensical theories about the whole thing, including some inane crap involving the color of Pesmerga's cape.

In looking up sources for alchemy on the net, I came across a forum about this subject which mentioned just the opposite. The page was in some foreign language I didn't recognize and I only found this one part through Google's cache, so I'm not presuming its truth, but this person posted that the number 8 was the highest Yang numeral, while 9 is the highest Yin numeral.

There was something else about the Eightfold Rune I meant to mention in my last post. I remember a few people in that topic related it to chemistry. Eight electrons in the outermost energy level symbolize balance in the atom, and according to the guy I mentioned in the last paragraph, 8 is the highest Yang numeral, and Yang symbolizes balance. It seems conveniently, or coincidentally, related.

It all came up because of the mention of the alchemical Eightfold Flower and how it symbolizes balance, now that I look back through the topic.
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Unless it was specifically disproved,

I say Pes WAS in Suikoden 3.

The librarian, who's name escapes me just now, has a glowing red eye in one of the CCG images.

Add that with Yuber's shape shifting power (Suikoden II manga vol. 1)

and it would seem Pes (if he has the same powers) could easily have morphed into the creepy old dude...

who...you find IN A CAVE..hint hint hint

Seems obvious to me, but then again..
somebody else proposed this,
so I'm only adding on other people's ideas.
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I stopped worrying about these two. To me, Suikoden 3 provided the answers. So, I see it like this:

Yuber=Chaos

Pesmerga=Order(or Dharma)

Yoshitaka Murayama said that the conflict between the two can only end in the final Suikoden. Then Luc said that the world will end in a final battle between Dharma and Chaos... Which sounds to me as a very possible scenario for an hypothetical final Suikoden.

It's a logical assumption. Do we have any other leads as of now? It could be a very rough theory, but considering what we have now, I'm betting on it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2004 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I stopped worrying about these two. To me, Suikoden 3 provided the answers. So, I see it like this:

Yuber=Chaos

Pesmerga=Order(or Dharma)

Yoshitaka Murayama said that the conflict between the two can only end in the final Suikoden. Then Luc said that the world will end in a final battle between Dharma and Chaos... Which sounds to me as a very possible scenario for an hypothetical final Suikoden.

It's a logical assumption. Do we have any other leads as of now? It could be a very rough theory, but considering what we have now, I'm betting on it.


That's a cool idea, I like it.

Also, I don't belive all the Pesemerga = Korogo theories, that's just to far-fetched for me.
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's a nice idea, but it holds a little less weight now that Murayama is no longer associated with the series. But even so, that theory has been flying around everywhere for a long time, so it's a popular belief.
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Since the creator got the boot by the bastards at konami will this mean that suiko 4 and beyond will turn out like suikoden3? In that the whole point of the game will be to "save the world". Cause that would suck big time.
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In response to EZ_Rabbit's theory.

Here's a pic of Eike with the red eye. http://www.konami.co.jp/th/suiko/list/2vol1/img/096.jpg

And here's a pic of Yuber (also a Card Stories pic). http://www.konami.co.jp/th/suiko/list/2vol1/img/021.jpg

Operating under the idea that Yuber and Pesmerga are similar in nearly every aspect (by way of assuming they can both shapeshift), you'd expect an avatar of Pesmerga's to have the same red eye as Yuber. However, from the two images above, it seems like their red eyes are very different. Keeping in mind that the two pictures were drawn by different artists, you'd think that if Eike was actually Pesmerga (a rather important character), the eyes would be the same if they were meant to be so.

It's not such a bad theory though.
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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2004 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think Konami may just drop the whole Yuber and Pesmerga thing and just focus more on Yuber. I wouldn't like that to happen but Pesmerga's total absence from Suikoden 3(they didn't even mention the guy :shock: ) would lead me to belive that they would.
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