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How would YOU make a Suikoden game?

 
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Xelinis




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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: How would YOU make a Suikoden game? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I originally posted this thread on Suikosource and it's been well received thus far; I figured that I'd bring it over here as well and see what ideas come out of you guys.

---Original Post Below---

As frustrating as the drought of Suikoden news can be, it's also when we as a community are at our creative peaks. So here's my question: How would you make a Suikoden game? You can either post your idea or you can comment on others.



My game would utilize Harmonia as two of its settings and an undisclosed location as its third. The idea here is a "Sight Across Time" system, similar to Trinity Sight except that each playable portion is in a different era. You'd play as Hikusaak, or even one of his followers, during the Hero's War and you'd play as a new character in Harmonia 3-5 years after the events of Suikoden III. In the third setting, you play as a muted, cloaked figure in a hidden village located deep in the mountains in a area not known to the player. The time period during this one is never explicitly stated, though it is known that it is between the other two.

As the game opens up, the cloaked character arrives in a village filled with golem-like creatures just as the full moon shines. After some debate regarding his identity, he is summoned to meet with Old Father, the apparent chieftain of this hidden colony. Being left alone by the other villagers, the seemingly ancient Old Father lectures the cloaked figure of the illusion of history as well of the distortedly symbiotic relationship between what conscious beings consider to be the past and the future. It is from here that the cloaked one has the option to witness "that which has passed and that which shall be."

In the past, the player controls Hikusaak as he initiates the Hero's War against Aronia, as well as his acquirement of the Circle Rune Piece. Yes, I say "Piece" as it is a small curve with a large chunk missing from it. In the future, the player controls a new character who attempts to rebel against the rule of the corrupt Temple Faction. He too acquires a "Piece" of the Circle Rune; a plot device later in the game uses this as a way to bridge the two eras.

The village becomes a hub of sorts for the player to switch between the two Harmonian eras, with the player being able to go back and forth whenever they wish. However, sometimes you have to complete a certain event in one era in order to proceed in the other, not just from the past to the future but the reverse as well. This can affect also affect things like getting special equipment, getting special upgrades to the castle, and recruiting Stars. There can be a lot of fun to have with a system like this, and the replay value would be immense.

Even if the player returns to the present, he can leave the tent and interact with the villagers, something that can also trigger events in the other two eras. After some time, the villagers will being giving hints as to Old Father's true nature. "It was out of loneliness that Old Father gave birth to all of us. Is it not ironic?" It is revealed near the end of the game that Old Father, much like the Zodiac Sword, is a physical manifestation of a True Rune, specifically, the True Rune of Time. Too powerful to be possessed by anyone without them going mad, it locked itself away in the mountains until the feelings that Darkness once felt also overcame it, leading to the creation of the village that the cloaked figure is currently in.

As for the cloaked figure, he is actually the Tenkai Star, a pure manifestation of the player's choices and feelings taken form in the game. It is his interpretation of the events Old Father is dictating, as well as his bond and emotions for the other 107 Stars found within, that is actually writing history.
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GosuJake




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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:30 pm    Post subject: Suikoden 2 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Pretty much the same elements as Suikoden 2, but utilizing the more modern technology we have now to improve it.

Of-course, the story would be different, but the soundtrack should be pretty similar. And the large scale battles should still be included, along with the recruitment of the 108 characters and the creation of an empire (with the castle and army). And definitely the mini games (cooking competition!). :mrgreen:
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Rezard




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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: How would YOU make a Suikoden game? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I dont think they should try to redo Suikoden II again, nothing good cames from being attached to the past. All problems Suikoden have today are due to stagnation. I think there are material we should keep and material we should drop:

Things I would keep:
- lots of recruits
- war battles, duels, HQ building
- SIII skills
- war drama plot (we are supposed to pity the characters who are suffering because of the war)
- political plot

Things I would drop:
- the 108 star system: I really dont see the point of always having one tenkai star, one tenki, one doctor, one nurse and so on. I think this only limits creativity and give no benefit at all, the only purpose is to say "it was based on water margin". I think the games would be better if the creator had more freedom to create the plot.
- linear plot: while I think the linear plot is good, I would like a little bit more of branching, like: winning a tougher battle and changing the end of the game or having some dificcult choices to make.
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BamaToon




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think I would have to rewrite S4. I loved the setting, pirates and island kingdoms, but I was disappointed with the story in that game. I'm not sure how I would rewrite it, but I would take out a lot of what was in there and add a lot of (I think) cooler stuff.

I do have to say though that I think I'd start by putting the hero in a better costume than those manshorts. The dual wielding swords thing is cool, but those manshorts have to go.
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stephencolbert5




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: How would YOU make a Suikoden game? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree with Rezard 100%. I've always thought it would be better to make certain that every character serves a purpose, probably at the cost of having fewer characters. After learning of how they feel obligated to make certain characters have the same traits as previous ones, I feel even stronger about this.

I especially agree with his sentiment about stagnation hindering the series' success. After so many games, you'd think they'd try to balance the weapon specific runes (unicorn, viper, etc.) with the magic runes (water, fire, etc.) or at least make them appropriately priced at the shops. Lastly, when they keep all the runes doing the same (or almost the same) things in every game, they lose the element of surprise and the player falls back on the same strategies and set-ups.

I also second BamaToon about Suikoden 4. I'm almost finished with another playthrough, and had some ideas that (I think) would greatly improve it. It's such a shame the story is so... I call it a skeleton of a story instead of a story, but I digress:

********SPOILERS for Suikoden 4********

1) Actually show Snowe taking in and looking after the orhpaned Lazlo as kids, instead of just having an optional townsperson briefly say it, and add a scene before Snowe becomes captain where Snowe expresses that he doesn't think he's ready to be captain but his father is making him do it ("to show Razril why we Vingerhauts must remain in charge")... This would actually make people have mixed feelings about Snowe.
2) Instead of the events on the Deserted Island being emotionless and pointless, give Keneth, Tal, Jewel, and Paula tragic pasts that tug at the heart and get the audience to sympathize with them. Examples of this would be: Paula being banished from the elves and having nowhere to return (thus, she empathizes with Lazlo and tries to help him) or Tal joining the knights because he felt small only to find out how thankless the job is (thus, he quits the knights to do something he deems more important: helping Lazlo). The first two days would belong to two of them, and the third (things are more powerful in threes) would be a tragic past of Lazlo that tugs at the heart... Needless to say, this would make these characters less one-dimensional.
3) Make Lino dress that way for a significant reason, one that, again, tugs at the heart. My idea is making his father, the former-king, have been assassinated, and as such, Lino views his kingship as a burden that endangers his life and tries to stay safe by hiding in plain site... This provides more motive for him to hand over leadership to Lazlo, and gets the audience to pity him.
4) Tie Elenor's reason for retiring into Lino's tragic past, and have a scene where Elenor apologizes for failing to save Lino's father and reveals that if she had only been smarter she would've been able to save Lino's father, and then Lino telling her not to blame herself for Lino's father's death... This also provides motive for why she's such a drunk, and once again, tugs at the audience's heart and makes us pity (and this time, admire) Elenor.
5) Make Lazlo, an orphan of the see, empathize with Troy, another orphan of the sea, on an intimate level when Troy's past is told to Lazlo, and show Lazlo's sadness at what he thinks and feels ("this could have just as easily happened to me... had Snowe not taken me in.") as Troy dies.
... Well, that's it for now. Before seeing more on minor characters like Gretchen and Helga, I want to see more on what were intended to be main characters: Lazlo, Snowe, Lino, etc.


Last edited by stephencolbert5 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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stephencolbert5




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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: How would YOU make a Suikoden game? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh yeah, how I'd make a Suikoden game:

(sorry for the double post)

Use the Trinity Site System
Don't bother putting in pointless characters or segments
Copy 95% of the gameplay from Suikoden Tactics
Strive for a melancholy mood by making it almost exclusively comprised of poetic injustice
Make it take place after Suikoden 3
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BamaToon




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: mild SPOILERS of S4 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I guess I should share some of my ideas too since stephencolbert shared some of his:

Mild SPOILERS of S4 follow:

I think I would have to eliminate the whole "orphan of the sea" angle if I was to rewrite S4. The whole orphan who's-really-royalty-thing is cliched and done to death. I think I would make Lazlo (cool name, horrible man shorts) just a regular guy living a boring life who decides to join up with some pirates "just for the hell of it". His life sucks and he's bored to death, so one day he takes a boat out and is picked up by pirates, who he then joins. He may or may not have a family that he leaves behind (I would choose no, but then I'm not married or in a relationship at the moment).

Snowe would still be the arrogant jackass that he is, and the player could still have him executed with no remorse (like I did when I played through S4). The PC would take the Rune from Brandeau after he dies in a sea battle (not necesarily with the Royal Navy though) and thus become the unwitting (and unwilling) bearer of a True Rune.

So now the guy who was bored and lonely is now the bearer of something he doesn't quite understand. He's read a little about the 27 True Runes, but doesn't really know what being a Rune Bearer means. He tries to carry on with his new pirate life but he can't understand why people hate him and fear him now and why he is hunted by mysterious forces. There could be some really good internal conflict with that theme. In the end, the PC must decide whether to use his new power for good or for evil (or not use it at all if he so desires.

There could still be a desert island episode as well. Either the hero washes ashore after some great battle or storm destroys his ship, or his former shipmates, now afraid of his new power, throw him on a desert island. He could be alone or with a few other exiles (either sympathizers or maybe prisoners from the last battle), and these fellow castaways would be the first recruits of his new army. From there you get the usual running around recruiting and finding a base of operations, etc.

The player could found his own pirate kingdom, either becoming a nuisance to the other kingdoms or staying out of international politics altogether. It will be increasingly difficult to stay neutral though as he will be hunted by the navies of other nations who are jealous and afraid of his growing power. He will eventually have to choose one side or the other in the coming war between the two main island kingdoms, if nothing else just to have fewer enemies.

I also think the the battles should be done in FFT style. I LOVE FFT. It's not the usual RPG because you have to use strategy and think to win the battles. It's not just "Auto" and watch your team rip the enemy apart.

Best of all, he could still hook up with a girl like Flare and it wouldn't be creepy and incestuous (I really thought Flare was going to be the main love interest at first, so when I found out the truth, it creeped me out a little).
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stephencolbert5




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: How would YOU make a Suikoden game? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That sounds cool BamaToon. The pirates in the game were definitely the coolest. And, Lazlo's shorts, while aesthetically pleasing, make it difficult to take him seriously. I was also miffed when the game, so many times, pretends to give the player a choice of whether to use the True Rune but never actually does. The illusion of choice is more irksome than simply not having a choice.

And, I certainly agree with the "Child of the Sea" sentiment. I didn't type anything specific on it because I suspect it would wind up sounding, um, wonky. I always thought the "Child of the Sea" thing needed to be explained at some point, like IIRC in Chrono Cross. I understand why most people assume Troy's title is metaphoric, but then I noticed them say the same of Lazlo very early in the game (before he's accomplished much) without any explanation. Provided so many characters join at the wrong levels with their weapons not smithed at all immediately before the final dungeon, I think they didn't get around to making all the scenes they wanted to and eventually just said "Just put whatever we have done in it, already."
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BamaToon




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: How would YOU make a Suikoden game? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="stephencolbert5":267grfc3]That sounds cool BamaToon. The pirates in the game were definitely the coolest. And, Lazlo's shorts, while aesthetically pleasing, make it difficult to take him seriously. I was also miffed when the game, so many times, pretends to give the player a choice of whether to use the True Rune but never actually does. The illusion of choice is more irksome than simply not having a choice.

And, I certainly agree with the "Child of the Sea" sentiment. I didn't type anything specific on it because I suspect it would wind up sounding, um, wonky. I always thought the "Child of the Sea" thing needed to be explained at some point, like IIRC in Chrono Cross. I understand why most people assume Troy's title is metaphoric, but then I noticed them say the same of Lazlo very early in the game (before he's accomplished much) without any explanation. Provided so many characters join at the wrong levels with their weapons not smithed at all immediately before the final dungeon, I think they didn't get around to making all the scenes they wanted to and eventually just said "Just put whatever we have done in it, already."


I was really looking forward to S4 once I found out the setting. I've always been a big fan of pirates and maps of islands (you should see the maps I play Civ 4 on!), so I was excited about the game since it was going to be set entirely in an island kingdom.

Then the game started. I tried to give it a chance, but by the end of it, I was just ready to get through it and see the ending. I burned through the whole game in one weekend when I was sick and didn't have anything else to do. I remember thinking "That's it?" when the end credits started to roll. It felt more like an intermission than a full game ender.

I may actually try to sit down and write some fanfiction for S4 or something one of these days. I did the same thing with the Star Wars prequel movies when I was disappointed in them. It's something for me to think about, anyway...

EDIT: One thing I simply MUST say here is that the hero of my version of S4 will have a dog, possibly two. Every good hero needs at least one animal companion. The dog of course will never die (I hate it when dogs die in games/books/movies) and will accompany the hero throughout the story. But there would be an option to remove the dog from the playable party at times for the cat lovers out there (but no cats. Cats are evil).
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