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Sanchez, Shoulden't they have known?
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Patriarch

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:31 pm    Post subject: Sanchez, Shoulden't they have known? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shouldent they have known Sanchez was the spy?

You had several imperials on your team including Griffith and Kasim who would have needed direct contact with "They Spy"

I doubt all information went through Barbossa and Windy especially since the Liberation army wasen't powerful enough to actually wage war until Tir joined and Sanchez was in there pretty much from the start.
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JetTheHellfire




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, you'd think someone would've recognized him, unless he was just reporting through ninjas the whole time.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="JetTheHellfire":20sp9a50]Yeah, you'd think someone would've recognized him, unless he was just reporting through ninjas the whole time.


Ya but as far as during the suikoden 1 period goes all the ninjas were on Tir's side. he had Rokku (Or w/e its called) and Kage and Fuma.

You'd think there was enough ninja's of their own that they would have caught it.
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JetTheHellfire




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's a good point. Just what were Tir's ninjas (and the rest of the army for that matter) doing when Sanchez was sneaking off to work his evil? I know they all thought that he was on their side, but something he was doing would've tipped off someone, right? I guess maybe Kasumi was too busy having a crush on Tir (is that even canon? And am I the only one who hates that pairing? They look related!) to see much else but the others have no excuse.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanchez, Shoulden't they have known? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I mean I'm pretty sure that he was one of the top Officers in the Liberation Army. Someone should have known what he was doing at all times of the day.

You have

Tir
Mathiu
Lepant
Humphrey
Viktor
Flik
Sanchez

and everyone else. That list of people shoulden't have been able to go to the bathroom without someone knowing it.
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JetTheHellfire




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lol true.. Maybe he was using birds? Still, someone should've noticed. I can kind of see how he was getting away with stuff before Tir took over, but once the army built up and things were more organized there's just no excuse for it.

I'm just going to put this as one of the reasons I don't think Mathiu was the best strategist. Tir would make major decisions and all, but wasn't Mathiu in charge of actual function? If Leon had come into it earlier on he would probably have figured it out in no time. Wait... at what point did they find out there was a spy?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="JetTheHellfire":i08v3iea]Lol true.. Maybe he was using birds? Still, someone should've noticed. I can kind of see how he was getting away with stuff before Tir took over, but once the army built up and things were more organized there's just no excuse for it.

I'm just going to put this as one of the reasons I don't think Mathiu was the best strategist. Tir would make major decisions and all, but wasn't Mathiu in charge of actual function? If Leon had come into it earlier on he would probably have figured it out in no time. Wait... at what point did they find out there was a spy?


He figured it out just before you storm the Northern Checkpoint into Kasim Hazil's area as your attacking Griffith.

I don't think Mathiu was all that great of a stragagist. During the 2 years of the war he really only had 4 plans of his own.

1)Making Ice boats
2)Fooling the spy into thinking there was a training exercise
3)Taking Toran Castle as an HQ
4)Getting the city-states to ambush Kasim's forces.

Everything else just fell into place.

Attacking Kwanda's zone was next on the list but everyone only went there because Kirkis washed up at the castle. Then each of the generals just fell into a checklist.

Milich
Teo
Neclord
Kasim
Sonya
Yuber

Milich was the next best choice to attack because he controled the most land to the west and South, Neclord wasen't really doing anything but he was just south of Milich and no one needs to get flanked. Teo attacked them. Kasim had the rest of the land that they needed that Barbossa himself didn't own and Sonya was sitting on her tuff most of the war.

Everyone but Kwanda and Teo really did nothing though Kwanda wasen't all that productive
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Last edited by Patriarch on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JetTheHellfire




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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think Northern Checkpoint is when you can get Leon from Kalekka (if you don't wait til Shasarazade)... so anything after that was probably his idea :D

Not that I'm trying to make this thread turn into a "preferred strategist" topic, but I like the Leon/Albert way of doing things better. They might go a little too far for some, but they get things done.

Do you think Sanchez would've gotten away with all that if Tir was working with Albert instead of Mathiu? Ok, so forget that Albert would've been a little kid at the time lol
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Actually, getting Lepant to join, and the whole forged seal plan were also Mathiu's.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="TruePerception":1eucf7x7]Actually, getting Lepant to join, and the whole forged seal plan were also Mathiu's.

but these are far from genius plans. Tir would have eventually have gone to lepants town and gotten conned by Krin without Mathiu's suggestion.

And the forged seal plan could have easily been looked over by just storming the place.

Hell you could have actually bypassed the entire recruiting Dr.Liukan by just shooting fire arrows at Milich's roses in a suprise attack. The dr you also here from 3rd party information not Mathiu. So you could have gotten him an not had to use a poison antidote.

If anything its Mathiu's fault Gremio had to die.

Worst Stratagist ever.

I mean out of the 4 plans I mentioned earlier only 2 only he would have thought off. The ice boats and tricking the city-states were great plans. but as far as the city state plan goes they could have instead just taken Kasim hostage. I mean it was with Milich's help that he switched sides he also wasen't all that stupid or have a black rune in his had like the other 2. He would have switched sides very easily without the city states murdering all his troops. Hell all those troops probably would have joined you.

Even the boat plan wasent needed because you could have just not attacked Sonya's base she would have attacked them and you would have had the advantage because its your own turf with superior numbers. less soliders of the liberation would have been killed because you have the defensive and ranged advantage. You also have the fire spears to tourch their boats from a distance.

I doubt Toran Castle was an unheard of place and Fooling the spy into thinking there was a training exercise really didn't matter because he attacked the northern checkpoint with more forces then the checkpoint had and before he sent the other 2 groups to attack seperate places.


And its not like Griffith's forces were unprepared. Sure they were caught offgard but they had a fortress to protect them and unless everyone was on their 10min break and had to leave the gate for a smoke They were probably all on guard duty. they were going to lose regardless.

Sanchez was a useless spy except for the fact that he killed Mathiu which he did to late in the war to actually matter anyway.

In my point of view this war was fought by the stupidest people in the world.


Because of Mathiu
Gremio was killed
Mathiu was killed
Potential soliders were killed by the city states
a child was almost killed
Liukan was captured
Sanchez was allowed to live
Tesla was forced to work for the army
Kimberly forced Tai Ho and Yam Koo to flee from their home into Dunan
an most importantly Gremio was killed

the only good thing he did was get apple to join you paving the way for her to fail in suikoden 2 getting Viktor's mercs killed including Pohl. Sure he also taught Shu but Leon already had his hands in Suikoden 2 before shu becomes relevent.

Mathiu's failure as a stratagist has a legacy that lives on in future games.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Sanchez, Shoulden't they have known? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Firstly Sanchez, they most likely knew that one of the soldiers from the original liberation army was a spy after all that the only way the hideout could have gotten attacked, but it's small minded to think that only the Generals we see in the game were privy to info. It was entirely likely that a random soldier could have been the spy so spending resources shadowing all of your trusted generals makes no sense. Also Sanchez was a spy if he had been dumb he would have been caught, there are a hundred ways to get information from one place to the next including using soldiers in your own army who were still loyal to Barbarossa. Also it's naive to think that the Scarlet Moon Empire didn't have Ninjas loyal to them, I doubt the three who join you and even all of Rokkaku were the only ninjas in toran. 2 of the 3 ninjas who join you are free lance. Also thieves like Krin were more or less everywhere, I'm sure the empire employed a few of those types as resources.

As for Mathiu being a poor strategist, that's pretty silly. He helped bring a the liberation army from a small band of rebels easily scattered by a raiding party to an army of considerable size, strength and substance. Mathiu was who named Tir the leader, Mathiu found their hideout and began the recruiting process. Without mathiu you would not have recruited: Lepant, Eileen, Pahn, Krin, Rock, Sheena, Apple, Leon or a number of others. Mathiu advised against attaching Millich without info, Mathiu is who got you into the Prison, Mathiu is behind every strategy in the game. Mathiu is the one who is able to circumvent the spy and continue on the road to victory.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Jets should have known Sanchez wasn't the answer.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Sanchez, Shoulden't they have known? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That may be the funniest thing I've read on these boards :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Another clue was his name not being on the Tablet of Stars.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[quote="Admiral Ackbar":t57ceg07]Another clue was his name not being on the Tablet of Stars.

Oh yes, cause in an army of 18,000 soldiers not being on Tablet designed for 108 people is a sure sign of treason.
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