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Angelus Silverberg
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 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwendal wrote: |
| Bugg wrote: |
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| Yuber is a summoned being. So leon WOULD have had to show albert how to summon him. |
Yuber is a summoned being? Since when is that an official info anyway? We have practically no information on what Yuber really is. And if Leon really "summoned" Yuber, then basically you're saying that Leon is a strategist who happened to be a summoner as well? Sure that magic skill would come in handy in a fight. Probably he should've summoned Yuber to help him out in the forest when he was about to die perhaps?
While the word being used was indeed "Albert summoned Yuber", but I doubt that it was meant to be taken literally. I don't really think that Yuber would be as a simple as a summoned being like monsters or whatever. It'd be too weak for a True Rune bearer like him to be summoned by others as if he was under their control and not his own. |
I`m pretty sure that Yuber is indeed summoned through magic from the "World of Emptiness" or whatever it`s name is. All the signs point to him not being human and originating from there, after all. I`d guess it`s a bit similliar to when Windy in S1 and Luc in S3 are summoning ordinary monsters. And as for Leon not using magic in a fight...I don`t think he`s a strong mage. He could have learned the ritual to summon Yuber somehow, but still not know much else about magic. This reminds me of the theory that someone else might be summoning Pesmerga...but that`s for another topic.
About Yuber being controlled: I don`t think Leon or Albert controls him directly. After getting Yuber`s attention, they probably bargain with him and strike some kind of deal. Yuber helps because he gets some kind of reward for it...maybe the chaos and death of war is his payment, or something else we don`t know about. This theory is also reinforced by the fact that Yuber flees when the nation he`s serving is collapsing. If he really was under the direct control of his summoner, he`d stay and fight to the end. |
Yuber probably only joined Albert and them because 1 Albert Summoned him, and 2 He gets to cause a lot of pain, death and suffering |
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Filipe
The Executors of Harmonian Order
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:34 am Post subject: |
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I think that at some point there should be like a meeting of all the living strategist Silverbergs in say the final Suikoden. You know the ones that side with the heroes and the ones that dont. Kind of like a conference and such where the game makers display all the different personalities. I think it would be interesting to see how all of these people would stand being in the same room with one another. Considering the personalities they have in the games.
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Knight of Saint Loa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| This is just a thought of mine, but another way to look at Yuber is that he's the physical form of chaos or better yet the eight-fold rune. The actual summon calls for the rune itself and it appears in the form of Yuber, and once his set task is complete or the person who summoned him dies/releases him the rune goes back into dormency. It's very plausable theory, the SDS takes on a form of a sword so why not a human? |
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Angelus Silverberg
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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That would be great to have like two Silverbergs on each side, manipulating the whole war and screwing up each others plans.
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Masaya
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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I agree, considering them being relatives they'd for somewhat know what the other is thinking in certain conditions and battlefields. However the other one would know that too. However I dont' think Silverbergs would have a reason for each to join aside because in all of the suikodens, they've all seemed to conspired together for somekind of goal, molding history through their influence to how they seem fit.
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Angelus Silverberg
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well in III Caesar was against Albert, but that was mostly because of Caesars jealousy and or naivety.
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| I`m pretty sure that Yuber is indeed summoned through magic from the "World of Emptiness" or whatever it`s name is. All the signs point to him not being human and originating from there, after all. I`d guess it`s a bit similliar to when Windy in S1 and Luc in S3 are summoning ordinary monsters. |
The problem with Yuber being a monster from World of Emptiness is that it would mean that Windy could summon him easily with her Front Gate Rune, which means that Leknaat would be able to send him away with her Back Gate Rune (which unfortunately didn't seem to happen). So in my opinion, Yuber can't be the same as monsters from World of Emptiness.
Also, if we assume that Yuber was in Suikoden world simply because he was being summoned by someone (probably Windy in Suikoden I, while Leon in Suikoden II, and Albert in Suikoden III), and we also assume that Pesmerga was from the same race/being/whatever as Yuber, then who summoned Pesmerga? It wouldn't make sense for Pesmerga to be able to come to Suikoden World while Yuber must be summoned if they were the same being (which I think most of think of).
Third point is about the signs. What signs really that pointed out that Yuber originated from World of Emptiness? The only sign we have is that Yuber might not be human. But that's about it. Never really being related to the World of Emptiness at all. Viki and Jeane might not be humans either, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they came from World of Emptiness, right? Keep in mind that there are millions (or was it thousands?) of worlds out there, and not only three.
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| This reminds me of the theory that someone else might be summoning Pesmerga...but that`s for another topic. |
There is no hint whatsoever about Pesmerga being summoned by anyone I think. I could be wrong though, it would be interesting to see the supporting ideas for that theory.
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| About Yuber being controlled: I don`t think Leon or Albert controls him directly. After getting Yuber`s attention, they probably bargain with him and strike some kind of deal. Yuber helps because he gets some kind of reward for it...maybe the chaos and death of war is his payment, or something else we don`t know about. This theory is also reinforced by the fact that Yuber flees when the nation he`s serving is collapsing. If he really was under the direct control of his summoner, he`d stay and fight to the end. |
Actually the fact that he ran away contradicted your theory of him getting the reward of chaos and death or something like that. Had "chaos and death" been the reward for him, he would've stayed to cause more chaos and at least kill more people rather than running away whenever his side was losing. But of course, there might be other rewards instead.
And what I meant with "Yuber being under Leon's control" wasn't as if he was a puppet that would do anything what Leon/Albert said, but more like "Leon/Albert could summon Yuber whenever he wanted" kind of "under control" if he was being summoned just like normal monsters. That's why I don't really think that he was summoned like normal monsters because it'd be too easy for them to summon him anytime anywhere.
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| And of course they can`t create an army of him, since he`s a unique individual. By this I mean that he`s a person, but he belongs to a race of others like him, though not identical. |
Now this is totally a big theory in my opinion. If you assume that Yuber is a summoned monster from World of Emptiness, then it would be more logical to say that there would be other "Yubers" in that world as well (just like there are 938579823758237589 Mirages for example). Hence, they could summon an army of Yubers if Yuber were to be a summoned monster like other normal monsters.
I don't think there is a single point that could support the idea of "World of Emptiness having human-animal type of relationship between the monsters" because we have no idea what's inside there other than the normal monsters.
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Gwendal
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:25 am Post subject: |
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There are more signs that point to Yuber being from the World of Emptiness than Jeane or Viki, such as him being "summoned" and his simillarity to the Mirages. And him and Pesmerga being the same creature is also pure speculation, like my theory about Yuber`s relationship with the monsters.
And Leknaat wouldn`t necessarily be able to send him away...a special techinuque like the one used to summon him might be neccessary, and besides, he`s a True Rune bearer. If Leknaat tried to do that, Yuber`s Eightfold Rune would probably counter the Back Gate Rune, like when Luc was trying to steal Geddoe`s Rune in S3.
Finally, the reason he runs away at the end is survival...not even Yuber can take on an entire army alone and survive. He leaves while he can...that`s how he`s managed to be in every major war in history.
You make a lot of good points, though, and there`s so much speculation involved, since we have so little info on his summoning and the World of Emptiness. Maybe he`s from another one of the Million Worlds?
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Lena Suphina
Luna Azul
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I know this post is random but hey:
Caesar should ditch Silverburging and be an underwear model. He even gets paid better.
Well Albert is probably the person continuing the Silverberg work, but I think underwear modeling would suit him fine too.
Now that I think about it, Yuber could be one in between wars.
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Angelus Silverberg
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Its proven that Yuber is summoned. We don't know how, why, or where he came from. But he is a summoned being.
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Filipe
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone figured that perhaps that maybe Yuber never really left and the alternate theory to some of what people might think is that Pesmerga IS Yuber. You never actually see them face to face. Or even better Yuber and Pesmerga are the same being and thats why Pesmerga is always hunting Yuber after Yuber is summoned. Maybe Yuber is a spirit drawn out of Pesmerga and thus to complete himself again Pesmerga hunts Yuber. Maybe the summoning proceedure is actually a drawing out proceedure to summon a spirit body that can do just about anything. It's a long shot but hey it works. You dont even need magical ability to do it it could be read from a book or something.
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Falcon Critical
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Filipe wrote: |
| Has anyone figured that perhaps that maybe Yuber never really left and the alternate theory to some of what people might think is that Pesmerga IS Yuber. You never actually see them face to face. Or even better Yuber and Pesmerga are the same being and thats why Pesmerga is always hunting Yuber after Yuber is summoned. Maybe Yuber is a spirit drawn out of Pesmerga and thus to complete himself again Pesmerga hunts Yuber. Maybe the summoning proceedure is actually a drawing out proceedure to summon a spirit body that can do just about anything. It's a long shot but hey it works. You dont even need magical ability to do it it could be read from a book or something. |
The first part of this cannot be true, as it is possible for them to meet in combat during GS2. Well I suppose it could be, but you can make them meet in the battles outside Rockaxe just b4 Nanami kicks the can.
I tried hard to get them to do something special, and attacked Yuber's unit with Georg / Pesmerga / Gijimu, they didn't say anything but both sides took a sword of damage. Then again knowing the GS2 map battles randomness, this could have been completely unrelated these two.
Summoned out of Pesmerga - now that is an interesting theory. Perhaps Pesmerga doesn't want to kill him at all, but rather to re-merge the two. This would then explain why Yuber seems to indirectly avoid Pesmerga even though the prior is clearly stronger. hmmm...
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Kobold
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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I'd prefer to see Yuber as being summoned via normal human mundane methods. Think of the word summon as it says in a dictionary, and not as in the magical and fantasy world of summoning. I personally feel it is more of Leon knowing the method of locating Yuber. This method even if is not entire mundane, should not be magical as well, but more of a technique to find Yuber's location, and employ his help. Like a dark contract or something... Or it could also be that Leon knows what Yuber seeks, which is likely to be chaos, and he is able to provide him with that.
Although it is possible that Yuber originated from the World of Emptiness, he could very well be like the chief guard there or somthing, but i believe he resides in the real world throughout all the suikodens. He came from the World of emptiness, but is staying in the real world. If he actually returns to the WOE everytime he disappears/runs away, it would be lame and unrealistic. It would also mean that the Leon/Albert wouldn't be able to summon him since they have no magical capabilities.
My idea would be that Yuber, and possible Pesmerga stays in the World of Emptiness. Windy, summons him from the WOE. And PEsmerga is sent to return Yuber to the WOE. Ever since Windy summoned Yuber, and Yuber gains independence after S1, he has been around the real world. Leon somehow manages to make a deal with him, and learns of a way to contact him in order to gain his assistance. Yep...
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Angelus Silverberg
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: |
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But Yuber and Pesmerga DO meet and they DO fight. Remember? After Gregminster is taken by the Liberation Army a duel ensures, but Yuber runs away.
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Gwendal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Kobold wrote: |
It would also mean that the Leon/Albert wouldn't be able to summon him since they have no magical capabilities.
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Err...sorry, but what do you mean with this? As fars as I know, everyone in the Suikoden world has at least some magical ability...even Leo or Georg Prime can equip a Rune and cast spells. Unlike some fantasy universes, magic comes from an external source, and isn`t an inborn ability. I wonder if the means to contact Yuber comes from a Rune or is some sort of special magic like Viki`s teleportation, though...
As for the rest of your post, Yuber might have been in the Suikoden world for a long time, but I still believe he is re-summoned evert time. There are good counter-points, though, and it simply becomes speculation and opinion at this point since we simply don`t have enough info. Unless there`s something in the Japanese publications...
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