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Castle expansion

 
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Patriarch

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Castle expansion Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Im playing Suiko 5 again and i can't remember when the castle expands for the 1st time. I have nearly everyone i can get up to this point. Why isent it getting bigger?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

it's gets bigger after a certain point in the game. doesn't get bigger after a set amount of recruits like it does in I and II.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm going from memory here but i think the castle gets bigger for the first time after you have completed the part on Nirva Island. I hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, it's after Nirva Island that your castle expands. For an additional reference, the second time would be after recruiting the guys from Sauronix (made as vague as possible to avoid spoilers :P )

You don't really have anything to worry about, because in this game, the headquarters automatically expands as storyline moves, unlike the first two games, where the castle expansion's occurrences are dependent on the number of stars that you have recruited.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It seems odd to me that it depends on story points. I mean, with the recruitment factor it makes sense that it has to expand to accommodate everyone. But it seems to just be kinda random in this one.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's partly that. But, unlike some of the previous HQs, technically Ceras Lake Castle "expands" by gradually losing more of its water and at the same time revealing the lower levels for the army's use. Whereas your other expanding HQs grew by adding new space upwards and/or sidewards.

It was convenient for the new floors to be accessible after specific plot points, too.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's cheap is what it is. I don't like it when they do cheap things like that....Which is why i think it was stupid.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How in the hell do you interpret that as cheap? It's an idea that they had that I thought worked really well. Instead of magically building on with no construction time, and using the exact same materials, the characters simply made use of what was already there. Plus, it works really well with the whole Sindar being highly advanced motif. Why should we add on to a castle that was built by a highly advanced civilization?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think the Ceras Lake Castle is that cheap. It's got to be worth only a few notches lower than True Runes, which would be like a majillion potch.

But seriously, I don't understand how that can be construed as cheap. Well, everyone's a critic...
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scarlet Assassin wrote:
How in the hell do you interpret that as cheap? It's an idea that they had that I thought worked really well. Instead of magically building on with no construction time, and using the exact same materials, the characters simply made use of what was already there. Plus, it works really well with the whole Sindar being highly advanced motif. Why should we add on to a castle that was built by a highly advanced civilization?


I would say it's cheap because it takes away from the 108 SOD element of the game. For some fans, watching your castle grow based on who/when you recruit them added to the sense of "accomplishment" we receive while playing the Suikoden games. Watching as you're base grew to accomodate your growing army added a sense of "realism" so to speak to the game and helped connect the player to story of the game. Think about suikoden II; you had the option to not get certain shop keep's, 'etc - with the "castle grows as you recruit" method that was employed in 1, 2, and 3 these area's wouldn't exist in the game. Thus making it worthwhile to go out and grab those stars. And even though you may never shop at their stalls it adds a sense of "growth" to the game. In suikoden V that element isn't there, infact the entire castle was cheap as hell - everyone already had their designated area's, even before you recruited them!! The different room designs for the allied leaders is a perfect example of this, the rooms ALWAYS look the same - I belive the "bandits" room w/ Roy and crew was made out of logs and such, and it was already a deisgnated area set aside for them even before you recruited them. The castle didn't evolve with the story, it remained consistant and the story just convieniently forced the pieces togeather. Not that the whole "water levels drop" thing wasn't interesting, but overall the interaction between the 108 stars and the castle was weak in suikoden IV and V. Some of us just want the elements that made Suikoden I and II AWESOME to remain consistant throughout the series is all.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

One of the reasons why I hated SV. The other part is the poor choice of the falenan capital...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scarlet Assassin wrote:
How in the hell do you interpret that as cheap? It's an idea that they had that I thought worked really well. Instead of magically building on with no construction time, and using the exact same materials, the characters simply made use of what was already there. Plus, it works really well with the whole Sindar being highly advanced motif. Why should we add on to a castle that was built by a highly advanced civilization?


Cheap: "Oh heyz this building has been the constructed from materials which can remain submerged for hundreads of years and remain squeaky clean!"

Also technically they do add on to the castle since you gain wooden bridges and roped rails to gain access to various locations, and since some if not all of the doors were wooden (and not the afore mentioned glossy cop out of marbelised waterproofing from the far reaches of space) you still had "magically appearing" construction. Or do you assume that it is easy to traverse a bridge over a body of water randomly decreasing?

Suiko1 the Toran Lake Castle expansions was actually feasible since it is a naturally made castle from something which can be said is similar to clay, this takes less time to 'create' when you think that at first glance there were already stumps where the towers were erected, and it is much easier to chisel and reinforce with a clay substance than it is to replace a wooden wall dontcha think?

Suiko2 was slightly less but no much more so than Budehuc (which really got sweet nada) in that it was a prior freakin town where the villagers just got up and eaten, I doubt the zombies or Neclord exactly cared to burn the entire town to ash so they had ample framework to work with.

So ceras lake was a cheap cop out in the materials used to construct it, I mean even the Sindar ruins in S3 had some decay attached to them or vegetation on the outskirts, yet there was sweet didly squat by way of residue on the entirety of ceras Lake once it was raised. Thus cheap.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Since Suikoden hit 3-D i think they could really do better. I mean look at other Konami games like MGS series. I mean sure there not getting any where near that buddget but the transistion from 4-5 shows that they can make good games but only when they feel like it.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They are in a lake....what the hell did you want. What I found stupid was how quickly it fell down to an even lower water level after they raised it back up during the retaking of the place. But seriously, I didn't care either way.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Cheap: "Oh heyz this building has been the constructed from materials which can remain submerged for hundreads of years and remain squeaky clean!"


Now see, I think that was really freaking cool of them. They didn't -have- to mention the materials used to make it, had no water damage. They could have completely skipped it as one of those Video games mysteries.

Quote:
So ceras lake was a cheap cop out in the materials used to construct it, I mean even the Sindar ruins in S3 had some decay attached to them or vegetation on the outskirts, yet there was sweet didly squat by way of residue on the entirety of ceras Lake once it was raised. Thus cheap.


The Sindar ruins we see prior to the Ceras Lake weren't built specifically to exist beneath a lake either. It was made with the intent of being submerged under the man made lake. So it's not hard to believe that the materials were choosen and crafted to be impervious to the weathering of the water.

And with that said, with it being under the water, it be preserved more than the ruins left open to the climate. It's not exposed to the wind, rain, snow or whatever. This isn't exactly uncommon practice, since there are things preserved such as logs over 100 years olds being salvaged and used to make expensive furniture.

Quote:
They are in a lake....what the hell did you want. What I found stupid was how quickly it fell down to an even lower water level after they raised it back up during the retaking of the place. But seriously, I didn't care either way.


Actually I just thought they opened the canals up more the second time than the first. If you look at it. The first time only one of the pillars was down. By the very end. All three of the pillars were down. So I figured more water was flowing out of the lake, than there was flowing in.
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