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Minor States of Kooluk
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So these states now manage to live independantly and unaided off their bad land and are still to this day loyal to a government that no longer exists or hasn't existed for a large number of decades? I understand where you are coming from but theres the time factor in between the fall of Kooluk and the rise of the Toran Republic which makes this large period of autonomy strange to me.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Remember that the idea of the remaining area of Kooluk forming a batch of city-states is actually conjecture. Which I think actually came from me, amusingly.

The reason why I came to this conclusion was as follows.

- If the remaining areas of Kooluk formed a new nation, it in no way solves the issue of what happened to the nation. It just means the nation lost a few northern territories. Obviously not what Konami was hinting at.

- If Scarlet Moon had annexed all Kooluk, we would surely have heard of trade with the INF and the area would have had some role in the Toran Liberation War. (Yes, the nation wasn't devise back in 1995, but this is an in-universe discussion)

- As I said before, a city-state can merely be a city which governs itself. If Scarlet Moon is happy with settling the border dispute, the INF are happy to resume trading, and the nation splits into more managable parts, it seems to be a winning combination that the former Koolukians would have little reason to change.

- Taking in Kooluk could have destroyed the Scarlet Moon economy. One of the reasons the Republic of Ireland withdrew all claims to Northern Ireland in a referendum was the realisation that even if Northern Ireland was incorporated peacefully, the economic and social conditions of the smaller territory would wreak havoc on the economy of the Republic. The same situation could easily apply here.

- The region is bordered by Scarlet Moon (virtually all defensive/reactionary wars) and the INF ("good guys"). If these two don't annex, no-one is going to do it instead. Unless Kanakan want to play at imperials.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh, I know it came from you - I went to Duefiumi and had a look around when I started wondering about this topic. It seems like a good interpretation of what is going on there so I thought it'd be wise to mention and debate about it here.

John Layfield wrote:
- If Scarlet Moon had annexed all Kooluk, we would surely have heard of trade with the INF and the area would have had some role in the Toran Liberation War. (Yes, the nation wasn't devise back in 1995, but this is an in-universe discussion)


Why exactly would the Island Nations Federation have had a role in the Gate Rune Wars? Apart from trade, the INF (we see in Suikoden V) is really only concerned with pirates and tracking down all the remaining rune cannons and shells, besides trade I don't see what role they would've played in the Gate Rune Wars when there is the distance created by the sea and the INF's attitude to the north.

John Layfield wrote:
- Taking in Kooluk could have destroyed the Scarlet Moon economy. One of the reasons the Republic of Ireland withdrew all claims to Northern Ireland in a referendum was the realisation that even if Northern Ireland was incorporated peacefully, the economic and social conditions of the smaller territory would wreak havoc on the economy of the Republic. The same situation could easily apply here.

- The region is bordered by Scarlet Moon (virtually all defensive/reactionary wars) and the INF ("good guys"). If these two don't annex, no-one is going to do it instead. Unless Kanakan want to play at imperials.


I don't know about the first point, I think taking the economics into it we can't really be sure either way. However, the people, infrastructure and supposed trade that is currently keeping them all alive and autonomous (and happy enough not to ask any outside country for annexation) surely would be benificial (or at the very least enough) for the Scarlet Moon Empire to take action in some way? As for the second point, that is the point I am making - it is out of character for the SME to not take an opportunity like this, and I expect that the INF and Kanakan would not move for this either way.

Then theres also the idea that Kooluk may one day rise again, and given how in the past it's ambitions had been directly revealed to the SME (through Eleanor Silverberg), surely they must've been worried about a threat rising again from the land. Especially when technologies like rune cannons are still floating about here and there.
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Rezard




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I agree that there would be no economy gain from taking Kooluk over. The country was poor (no sacking) the army was non existent (no glory for the nobles), I think they would be more concerned in keeping refugees off their land.

About trade, maybe Toran trade trough the east and it isn't concerned about trading thought south.

Talking about empires, they usually have another problem, keeping their border, this was a real problem for the roman empire, they even choose to halt their invasions.

Maybe SME have enough enemies already and didn't want to gain borderline with two troublesome factions, Gaien and INF. It is much safer to have borders only with a weak country, they could keep their south territories with less troops, saving some money for the real threat, Harmonia, Jowston and whatever exist to the west.

Perhaps former Kooluk was taken by someone else, like Gaien, INF or Kanakan.
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Sir Kan of Grassland

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that eact minor state of the former Kooluk nation has each other back like the united clan of the grassland I dought that the kayon clan along could take downt he might army of zexen. But the whole grassland clan togather might stand a chance. so what I am saying maybe that have some sort of deal work out between them.

Like if one of them is attack the other must come to there aid.
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