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Suikoden V "Affection Points" System
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:28 am    Post subject: Suikoden V "Affection Points" System Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

In Suikoden V there is a system in place using number values for characters, which is affected by the choices you make in game as the Prince. Whenever you're given a dialogue option, chances are that this same point system is being affected. In the beginning of the game, pretty much every dialogue choice affects it. The numbers go up when you're nice to a character, or do something they approve of, and the numbers can go down when you're a douchebag. The biggest example is how you must be nice to Lymsleia throughout the game in order to unlock the "better" ending. This system also unlocks an extra scene with Lyon early in the game; if you have a certain number of points with her by a certain part in the story, the bonus scene plays. These numbers even affect some Unite Attacks, making the Prince's attack with Sialeeds stronger, the attack with Lyon stronger, etc.

I'm calling them Affection Points, or AP, for short.

Well...here's the thread about it at Suikosource:
http://www.suikosource.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=7959&st=0&sk=t&s d=a

And it's pretty much dead. Which really sucks. The guy in the beginning lists dozens of choices that increase AP with many characters. You can increase AP with Goesch? With Talgeyl? With Galleon? And just how would gaining a +1 with Talgeyl affect the game? Does it unlock dialogue later? The poster only lists choices from the beginning of the game, and I can only imagine there are many many more later.

I can't find a complete listing anywhere. This damned AP system is the one thing keeping me from playing a perfect Suikoden V file. I can't even tell which exact choices help me with Lyon and Lymsleia, aside from the ones in the very beginning, and as some people have brought up in the Suikosource thread, some of the "correct" choices the guy listed are actually wrong.

So...does anyone have a complete listing of this AP system? I find it hard to believe it's been this long already and still no one has come forth with a complete listing. What gives?

I heard Japanese players have a complete listing. Is this true? If it is, I think a translation is in order...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think there's one on GameFAQs.

Okay, I checked and it was the end of one of the Walkthrough FAQs (not a stand alone one).

Cyril from GameFAQs wrote:
======================================================================= ========

--- Speculation: "Lym Point" Guide ---

======================================================================= ========

Note: This entire section is speculation of my own. I would prefer it if you
did not use it, or claim it as yours. You can Email me to give me ideas for
corrections, but there is no "correct" answer for this Guide, because there is
NO tally in the game. Period. This is just meant to help you make the
correct decisions and help you get the endings you want.

I am hearing far too many people say they are forced into the "Georg" ending
when they wanted the "Lym" ending, and thus, this mini-guide came into play.

"Lym Point" is a term that I use to describe how you get a certain ending, and
also how you get certain optional scenes. If you are too mean to Lym or Lyon
during certain scenes in the game, then you will not get Lym Points. If you
are in the middle, or go the extreme right then you will be able to choose
between the two endings. According to Blue Moon, you need to have at least
12/25 Lym Points to be able to choose your endings, but I have not thoroughly
tested this myself.

Some examples that Lym Points exist:

Example: I was mean with every single comment to Lym during one game. I
teased her and sided against her whenever possible. During the 108 Stars
ending movie, I was given NO choice to help her, and the game automatically
cut to Georg. This says that there is a hidden tally of "Lym Points" in the
game that will tell you what ending you will get if you're too nasty.

Another example of "Lym Points" is a scene in Lunas. If you were really nice
to Lym, she will spend the night with you. If you were nasty, or even
moderatly mean, however, nothing will happen. This definitely suggests the
game is keeping a hidden tally of your answers.

Lyon points also exist, as shown early on. There are two versions of the
same "Lyon/Hero Bonding" scene. The Hero is given two completely different
answer sets based on how he treated Lyon in earlier scenes. One answer is for
the "Nicer" way of treating Lyon, and another is "meaner," where Lyon acts
more like a nervous bodyguard than a special friend.

This guide assumes you start at a Base of 0 Lym Points. At 12 Points,
apparently, you will have the option of choosing either ending. Answers to
Lym are on a positive and Negative Scale. If you answer Negative, however,
you will not lose points. You just do not get the point for being nice to Lym.

Look at it like this:

| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
5 10 12 15 20 25
Ending A | Ending B
At 12 points, you can choose your ending.

Going too far in the Right direction assumes that you automatically get Ending
A. Ending A is considered the "Georg" Ending. Note that going too far in the
Ending B (the "Lym" Ending) direction does NOT mean that you will
automatically see the B ending. Ending B is what many consider the "True"
ending to the game, though both endings can ONLY be seen by obtaining 108
Stars of Destiny.

Once again, this is not meant to taken as completely accurate, but is meant to
help you choose what decisions you can make and not make to make sure you get
the endings you want. If you want to choose between the endings, try to stay
somewhere near the middle, or don't go to the far extreme in mean-ness.

Also, I have only 23 of the 25 points here. I have yet to find the last two,
which annoys me somewhat, even after playing through the opening a good 8
times. I will find them though!
---

What do you get for being nice to Lym, other than being able to choose your
endings?
There are two optional scenes early on you get for being nice to Lym. One
happens during your first trip to Lunas. This scene is highly debatable
because of its incestual tones (but really, unless you have a sick mind it is
not bad at all) where Lym asks to spend the night with the Prince.

The second scene is a lengthened version of the Prince's reminisces during
your second visit to Lunas. This is a great scene to watch, and I highly
reccomend it.

What do Lyon points do?
This is a harder question to answer. There is only one scene in the entire
game that is affected by Lyon points (the Lyon Bonding scene) it seems. Yet
it still seems that they are there for a reason.

I believe that they will affect the rate of chance that Lyon will guard the
Prince later on in the game. This may be completely off as well, but they have
to be there for a reason, and I'm determined to find it!


Some Frequently Asked Questions about my "Lym Points:"
---------------------
Question:
Does being too nice or too mean change the text in the endings?
---
Answer:
No. Being too mean just forces you into one ending.
---------------------
Question:
What's the point?
---
Answer:
Many people are being forced into the "Georg" ending. I personally did not
find the "Georg" ending satisfying, and I wanted to make sure other people did
not have this problem.
---------------------
Question:
Do I need to see both of the optional scenes in Lunas to be able to choose my
endings?
---
Answer:
I have not yet defined this 100%, but no, apparently. These just show that you
have more than enough points. It's good if you DO see the scenes though, as
you know you will be able to choose the ending. Don't push your luck with a
game this long and touchy.


Lyon Point:
-Scene in Lordlake Prologue, finding Toma-
Sure, I'll Wait: -1
I can't let you do that.: +1
------------------
Lym Point:
-After the scene with Arshtat/Lordlake, to Sialeeds.
Yeah, I guess I'd better.: Positive
I'm tired. Maybe tomorrow . . .: Negative
------------------
Lym Point:
-To the Maid in the Prince's Room-
Yeah, I'm tired: Negative
No, I haven't seem Lym yet. Positive
------------------
Lyon/Lym Point:
-To Kyle, after meeting him-
Sure, I'd like that: Negative
Hmm, I'd better go see Lym first. . .: Positive
------------------
Lym Point:
-To Ferid, after the scene in the Knight's Room-
I haven't seen her yet: Positive
Nope. I'll look for her tomorrow. Negative
------------------
Lym Point:
-During the scene with Lym-
I'm Home Lym: Positive
H-hey! Let go!: Negative
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Meet Miakis-
Um, hello, Miakis.: Positive
Uh, a little help?: Negative
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Lym's Husband-
Of course I'd hate it.: Positive
Not really. . .: Negative
-----------------
Lym Point:
-The Senate-
Huh? I have to go too?: Negative
Okay, lets go!: Positive
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Sleepy Sialeeds-
All right, thats enough, Auntie.: Positive
You started it Lym.: Negative (This one's somewhat hard to tell, Lym seems to
realise she made a mistake, but you still lecture her, hmmm...)
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Meet the Barows-
I can't quite disagree with them. . .: Negative?
I can't quite trust him. . .: Positive
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Sacred Games List-
Only seventy?!: Negative?
Seventy? That many?!: Positive
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Lym's Training-
Why don't you take the day off?: Negative
All right, then. Study hard!: Positive
Note: This is another hard one to judge, because both answers are rather vague.
-----------------
Lyon Point:
-What do you want to do?-
Go to town, I guess.: +1 (while not much of a comment, Lyon has a happy face
here, seeming to me you get a "Love Point")
I'm not sure. What do you want to do?: 0
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Kyle's "Training"-
Of course!: -3?
Not really.: +3?
Note: This pretty much determines your "Lyon Points" for this point. Even if
you were really sweet to Lyon in every other comment, Lyon gets really angry
during this scene, and during the later "Bonding" scene, she will give you the
less comforting and friendly speech, and the more "bodyguard" speech.
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Lyon Bonding Scene-
Note: There are actually two scenes here, depending on the choices you've made.
I guess I'll be fine then: +1
Don't worry. Nothing will happen.: 0
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Gizel Rescue-
We're fine, thank you: -1
You could have killed us!: +1
Note: Rather vague...
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Gladiators-
That's terrible.: +1
. . . . .: -1
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Gladiators 2-
He needs a doctor.: +1
. . . . .: -1
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Meet Shoon-
How Come?: 0
All Right. . .: +1
----------------
Lyon Point:
-Armes Spy-
We should check it out: 0-+1
It must be your imagination: -1
Note: Lyon seems hesitant with the positive (first) answer here, so I'm not
actually sure if you get a point or not.
-----------------
Lyon Point:
-First Duel-
It's still a fight. I want to win!: -1
I'll try not to get hurt.: +1
-----------------
Lym/Lyon Point:
-After the Duel, Miakis teasing-
Huh. I didn't know that.: Negative (this option makes it seem like A: you
don't pay attention to your sister, and B: you WANT to marry her)
Uh, Lym. . .hello?: Positive
Note: This one looks like it is both a Lym AND a Lyon point.
-----------------
Lym Point:
-Lym's Fear-
Want to go to your room and rest?: Positive
You'll have to tough it out.: Negative
Note: This one's hard to judge. Though if you pick the nastier response (the
second answer) Arshtat will back you up and Lym -somewhat- forgives you. I
suggest picking the top, because the prince smiles at Lym, thus giving
more "love" points.
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Save Belcoot-
Let's rescue him right away! +1
Let's watch and see what happens . . .: -1
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Meet Belcoot-
Us? We're just imposters.: 0
We're glad you're okay.: +1
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Going home(from the Inn)-
I thought it tasted pretty good: +1
He's quite the guy: +1
Note: The top is the better choice here, because you'll actually get two
options during this single scene.
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Going home(from the Inn)2-
Hmm. I don't really know.: -1
He's quite the guy.: +1
Note: This is connected with the previous question, and is only possible to
answer if you talked about the "food."
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Visiting Belcoot-
Sounds good to me!: +1
I'm not sure we should...: -1
------------------
Lym Point:
-Speaking to Lym before heading to find Belcoot-
Gizel: Negative
Belcoot: Positive
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Marina Kidnapped-
Let's mobilize the patrol guards.: -1
Can we take care of this ourselves?: +1
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Marina Kidnapped 2-
Leave it to us!: +1
We'll do our best: 0
------------------
Lyon Point:
-Good Morning!-
Wh-What happened to you?!: +1
Don't tell me. . .: 0
-------------------
Lyon Point:
-Breakfast time-
I did? Oh well. . .: +1
Why didn't you wake me up?: -1
-------------------
Lyon/Lym Point?:
-Final Match-
. . . .: Negative
Stop!!: Positive
-------------------
Lyon Point:
-Zegai's Truth-
I dont believe you . . .: -1
Why didn't you say so before?: +1
-------------------
Lyon Point:
-Zegai's Death?-
I would never let that happen!: +1
. . . . .: -1
-------------------
Lyon Point:
-The morning after-
You didn't, either?: +1 (empathy)
Actually, I slept like a log.: 0 to -1 (Ferid actually compliments you a few
minutes after this scene if you choose this, so I'm actually not sure what
this answer gives . . .)
--------------------
Lym Point:
-Before the Arshtat/Ferid discussion, to Miakis in Lym's room-
Of course I do!: Positive
Why do you ask that?: Negative
--------------------
Lym Point:
-Before the Arshtat/Ferid discussion, to Lym in her room-
I-I don't know what you mean. . .: Negative
Sorry, Lym, but we cant tell you. . .: Positive (respect)
--------------------
Lym Point:
-Arrival Home-
Good morning, Lym.: Positive
Hey, you can't just barge in like that!: Negative
--------------------
Lym Point:
-Raftfleet -optional, can only be done before Lunas-
I guess it'd be all right. . .: Positive
You know you can't!: Negative
--------------------
Lym Point:
-Meet Haswar-
L-Let me go!: Positive
W-Who are you?!: Negative (this is rather indirect, but Lym gets angry)
--------------------
Lyon Point:
-After the succession discussion-
You coming Lyon?: +1
We're leaving without you...: 0
--------------------
Lym Point:
-Cerempony Peeking 1-
Of course I wont.: Positive
Why would I want to peek at you?: Negative
--------------------
Lym/Lyon Point:
-Ceremony Peeking 2-
VERY Sure: Negative, +2 Lyon Points?
. . . . .: Positive, -3 Lyon Points? (Lyon doesn't like you acting like Kyle)
--------------------
Lyon Point:
-Ceremony Peeking 3-
Aren't you going to be there, Lyon?: -1
I-I was just kidding!: +1
Note: This is only selectable if you choose ". . . . ." above.
--------------------
Lyon Point:
-Strange sounds 1-
We'll go with you.: +1
All right.: -1
--------------------
Lyon Point:
-Strange Sounds 2-
On second thought, lets go with him.: +2
I'm sure He'll be fine.: -1
Note: This is only accessable if you said no the first time. You do get to
see a better scene for this though (IMO)
---------------------
Lym Point:
-Trouble Sleeping-
I don't think thats a good idea.: Negative
No, I don't mind.: Positive
Note: This scene will only be scene if you have gathered a LOT of Lym points
so far. Even if you have a moderate amount you will not see this scene.
---------------------
Lym/Lyon Point:
-Assasin Attack!-
I'm worried about mother and Lym. . .: Positive
Let's get out of here!: Negative
---------------------
Note: During the escape scenes, I do not believe it affects your "Lym"
or "Lyon" points if you choose to to run or stay behind. Because you are not
directly altering Lym's opinion of you at that time, it does not seem to
matter. And the -only- time there may be a direct effect on the Lyon points is
when you go to the extreme and keep staying behind for Lym, but even then I
don't think that it is anything negative. Quite the opposite, actually, I
think it might actually be positive, as she will respect your devotion to your
sister.

Note: There seems to be no more Lym Points from here on out.
---------------------
Lyon Point:
-Lunas Sleep-
You Should rest, too, Lyon.: +1
I want to be alone right now.: 0 to -1
---------------------
Lyon Point:
-The morning after 2-
Yeah, I guess so.: 0
What about you, Lyon? : +1
---------------------
Lyon Point:
-Lyon's Confession-
Of course!: +2-3
I'll have to think about it. . .: -2 to -3


Full credit, of course, goes to Cyril for writing the guide.

That's just speculation I believe (I havn't read it all) so I'm not sure if it's actually acurate, but seems something to start with.
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ard

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I tried this list before, choosing all favorable options as described in this FAQ and it did help me get the extra scene with Lyon and the "true" ending. Though, i can't say how accurate these numbers are.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've seen that FAQ Axiose. But it leaves out all the other points. You can score points with more than Lym and Lyon. You can score points with Georg, Kyle, Galleon, and Miakis, which can affect the damage of the big unite attack they share. Then you can score points with characters like Salum, Ferid, etc.

A lot of those choices from the FAQ don't just add or remove points with Lym and Lyon, many of them also at the same time affect points with other characters. Those are the ones I'd like to get a hold of as well, and I'd like to know the full effect of what the points do with those characters.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I didn't know that you could get Affection points with characters other than Lyon and Lym. I thought that this idea was only applicable to these two characters, and the effect of which would be the different scenes and ending scenes you get. But for the other characters, what would you get from scoring "affection points" from them? Extra scenes? If there were, they should be discovered now. I don't think that you could score AP from other characters besides Lyon and Lym, since I can't think of the effects they would bring. Or I could be wrong. I don't know.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That would be my question. Gaining points is all well and good, but what are they for? The prince doesn't unite with Goesch or Talgeyl. And he doesn't have any heart warming scenes with them that I remember.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

He actually has a hidden bed scene with them that the programmers deleted for purposes of being PC :*laugh*:
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If that were true, it would actually be a relief to know that something results from gaining points with a character like Talgeyl. Sure, I don't necessarily enjoy the thought of a naked Talgeyl, but it's better than nothing.

I think.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think that would probably be one of those "ignorance is bliss" kind of moments! :shock:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

i strongly believe the Affection Points determine when you can recruit certain characters, like Zegai, Murad, Oboro, etc. but yeah, some characters like Talgeyl are auto recruits and don't even fight... maybe if you treat him poorly you'll see an angry letter or not get any letter at all?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wow....I did not even know of this. Luckily, I just started a new game+. and for a randpom reason decided to be nicer this time around. Thank you so much for posting this. Now that I know how to get Bastan (Easier than i thought), I will follow this guide throughout the game. Yay, happy ending!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I almost always say everything nice the first time through a game. It's just safer!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, all the Lym/Lyon point options end after the attack on the castle?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't know :( But just to be safe, be nice ^^ After all, when you're mean, it REDUCES your points, and you can't have that happening can you?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Admiral Ackbar wrote:
I don't know :( But just to be safe, be nice ^^ After all, when you're mean, it REDUCES your points, and you can't have that happening can you?


Well, I followed the guide, and Lym visited me at night. So, that means I have done it next to perfect. The only mistake I made was not stopping the match with Belcoot. I went to close my door, and forgot you had a time limit. I dove for my controller, but alas, I was too late. And there are far more Lyon moments, so she has to be in love with me now. Thank you so much for posting this. My goal of perfection draws near.
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