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Onimaru
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: Demons in Suikoden |
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Demons, Devils, Oni - call them whatever you want, but I've noticed a strong connection with these demonic beings and the world of suikoden. In suikoden these beings orginate from a "World of Emptiness", this is a subject that has been greatly overlooked in the past. Simply discarded as another useful bit of lore for the suikoden wolrd. Or is it?
On one hand we have characters like windy with her front gate rune which she used to summon 80,000 monsters from this abyssmal plane. Among these creatures was her servant Yuber, a posessor of his own demonic true rune. We also have the "Fog Ship" which i belive to be some sort of alternate mode of transportation, taking the souls of the damned from the suikoworld to this seperate plane. A "charon and the river styx" sort of deal. Other interesting "demon" related tidbits of the story include: Rikimaru's sword (Yasutsuna, Onimaru, Dojikiri) directly relates to Japanese mytholigy concerning demons (i'm sure the topic of Rikimaru's sword has already been discussed). Yohn - A creature summoned from the World of Empiness. The Giant Tree, The Eye Fish, 'etc...the list goes on and on. This alternate realm has played a rather large part in the discontent in the land of suikoden, perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.
There are also an abundance of monsters we fight such as Mirrages, Demon Hounds, Demon Sorcerer, Devil Armor and Ekidonna that are very demonic (it's in their names). Just exactly what ties does this demon world have with the suikoden universe, and how will it play a part in future games? Do you think it is just another intricate detail in the story, something that's useful for explaining where the monsters were from and gives Yuber a little backround. Or do you think this will play a major role in future games, perhaps the final game? |
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retrospect.
Cosby You! Black Entertainer
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: |
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i think it's mostly just a convenient excuse to have powerful enemies, really. any japanese game will have a stock "demon empire" to fight instead of other people. _________________
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Wolf Stew
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Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the world you're referring to (the World of Emptiness) is a demonic world, rather it's just a place where monsters originate from. There's never been any mention of the world being controlled by a super demon or a devil. I've always been under the impression that it was a wild land (in some kind of alternate dimension) where monsters roam free. And apparently there are good beings from that world too, as evidenced by Yohn in Rhapsodia. |
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Onimaru
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Hm, true - Yohn wasn't a being of evil, so I suppose anything is possible. Perhaps a Suiko that takes place in this alternate world? That might be interesting and give a little more insight on certain characters or specific runes.
I dont know though, I can't shake the feeling that there is more to this reference than just being an easy answer for powerful monsters, I want to think that they are setting the fondation for something bigger. _________________
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I hate you Onimaru. |
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Galt
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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The World of Emptiness is also the place where people go to when they die. One example is Mr. Walter, the man who did stuff with a goat. |
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Onimaru
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Then would Windy have the power to summon people back from the grave??? _________________
Arevus wrote: |
None of my friends deserve to sleep with my girlfriend. She is too good for them. So I guess they could sleep with my mom. It hurts to say that.
I hate you Onimaru. |
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Wolf Stew
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Leknaat definitely summoned Gremio back from the grave, although the 108 stars had something to do with that power, I think.
If Leknaat could do it, I assume Windy could do it as well, if the conditions were right. |
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Onimaru
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Well I specifically say Windy because she holds the front gate rune, which I belive is somehow connected with the "world of emptiness" correct? She summoned 80,000 monsters from that plane - if that's where the dead go, then i could see her w/ the ability to bring the dead back to the world of the living. _________________
Arevus wrote: |
None of my friends deserve to sleep with my girlfriend. She is too good for them. So I guess they could sleep with my mom. It hurts to say that.
I hate you Onimaru. |
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TruePerception
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Leknaat can summon too! How do you think Luc learned? _________________
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Vextor
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Oh yes, the dead would go to the world of emptiness, but once they go there, they'll likely be transformed into something completely different (monsters) as evidenced by the rune cannon, eye dragon, etc. Without Leknaat's miraculous power combined with the 108 stars super duper power, Gremio may have returned as some sort of mushroom monster... maybe. |
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Jossef
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Vextor wrote: |
Oh yes, the dead would go to the world of emptiness, but once they go there, they'll likely be transformed into something completely different (monsters) as evidenced by the rune cannon, eye dragon, etc. Without Leknaat's miraculous power combined with the 108 stars super duper power, Gremio may have returned as some sort of mushroom monster... maybe. |
It would have been fantastic if Leknaat still tried to resurrect Gremio without having the 108 stars and that happened. I may actually have died of laughter if it did. _________________
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Ujitsuna
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Wolf Stew wrote: |
Well, Leknaat definitely summoned Gremio back from the grave, although the 108 stars had something to do with that power, I think.
If Leknaat could do it, I assume Windy could do it as well, if the conditions were right. |
Leknaat said it could only be done once though. Whether this means only with her rune or just generally, it isn't known. |
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Sun's Vicegerent
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Actually the only thing I noticed about the World of Emptiness from Suikoden tactics, is that it seems to house a lot of fish monsters.. or rather living humans who enter that certain portal become fish monsters and nothing else.
So I assume when your dead, you can hopefully become something that.. isn't a fish? _________________
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Justice Johnny
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote: |
Wolf Stew wrote: |
Well, Leknaat definitely summoned Gremio back from the grave, although the 108 stars had something to do with that power, I think.
If Leknaat could do it, I assume Windy could do it as well, if the conditions were right. |
Leknaat said it could only be done once though. Whether this means only with her rune or just generally, it isn't known. |
Vextor's post gives me the idea that the 108 stars allowed for him to come back in his original human form. She and Windy could probably bring back anybody, but not in their original form. _________________ "Oranges can't fit into circles because rectangles are made of cheese." |
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Ujitsuna
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Highwind wrote: |
Vextor's post gives me the idea that the 108 stars allowed for him to come back in his original human form. She and Windy could probably bring back anybody, but not in their original form. |
Yes but again, Leknaat said it could only be done once. Leknaat chose to use it in Suikoden I because Gremio was a star of destiny who had died, meaning that they'd never be at full power without him. This gives me the feeling that a technique such as that could only have happened once, in any way shape or form. I could be proved wrong later down the line but I doubt we'll ever see that happen again. |
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