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blueflame
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 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: Souleater/Rune of Life and Death |
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The 4 attacks of Souleater are the following
Based on Suikoden 1:
Deadly Fingertips=Instant Death to 1 enemy
Black Shadow=300 Damage to all
Hell=Kill all enemies
Judgement=1500 to 1 enemy
Based on Suikoden 2:
Finger of Death=Instant Death to 1 enemy
Black Shadow=500 Damage to all
Hell=Kill all enemies
Judgement=1500 Damage to one enemy
Based on Suikoden 4:
Finger of Death=100 Non-elemental Damage to the enemy and 1 lifepoint for every 1 damage
Black Shadow= 300 Non-elemental Damage to all
Hades=100 Non-elemental Damage to all and 1 lifepoint for every 1 damage.
Judgement=1500 Non-elemental Damage to one enemy
based on suikosource.com
Why is this True rune called Rune of Life and Death. As you can see, most of its attacks are about death. I don't see the life part. I noticed this in one of the topics I made when one said that the Resurrection is the life part and the Darkness was the death part. In the souleater, I don't see any life-giving power or anything like that. Only in Suikoden 4 can you see it giving off life but what about Suikoden 1 and 2. You can't really call this Rune of Life and Death but only Rune of Death because that is what its powers are all about. |
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Ikano
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that Tir had it in Suikoden 1 and 2 and he hasn't had it long enough for the 'Life' part of the Rune to unlock....while in Suikoden 4 keep in mind it's Ted who has the rune
In other words...it's probably a question of rune mastery.
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Failure_Urn
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Nadisu, the timeline says from SI to SII is i believe 2-3 years, also Tir did not like havint to use the rune, one of the big story things was not having to use it. So he probably just had not masterd it yet
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John Layfield
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Failure_Urn wrote: |
| I agree with Nadisu, the timeline says from SI to SII is i believe 2-3 years, also Tir did not like havint to use the rune, one of the big story things was not having to use it. So he probably just had not masterd it yet |
Tir McDohl had six years (455 to 460) with the Rune of Life and Death when we last met him.
Honestly, it's just a cool name that got made to look silly in comparison to other True Runes when the idea of runic duality came in.
EDIT: What? This was my 5,000th post?! What a rip!
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Inko
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm going with the fact that the Soul Eater wants more souls so it more willingly shows it death part then it's life part to it's bearer. |
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Kalidor
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| blueflame wrote: |
| Why is this True rune called Rune of Life and Death. As you can see, most of its attacks are about death. I don't see the life part. I noticed this in one of the topics I made when one said that the Resurrection is the life part and the Darkness was the death part. In the souleater, I don't see any life-giving power or anything like that. Only in Suikoden 4 can you see it giving off life but what about Suikoden 1 and 2. You can't really call this Rune of Life and Death but only Rune of Death because that is what its powers are all about. |
I think that there are several reasons why it is called the Rune of Life and Death beyond simply the fact that it's a cool sounding name (which it is). There are several reasons why the powers that it expresses are mostly those of the death side of things though.
First and foremost, as in many video games, we have to consider the gameplay mechanics. The main expression of runic power in Suikoden is in random battle events. Thus, the main powers of runes that we see being used are powers that are appropriate to these random battles. That does not mean that the rune is limited to these powers. I've actually written an editorial that can be found on the main site that deals with these issues. I don't want to rehash the whole thing here, so if you're interested, give it a read. For the specific case of the Rune of Life and Death, there were already two runes that provided healing powers, the water rune and the wind rune. However, there was no rune in the games that could provide instant kills against the enemy. Thus, the developers made this the province of the Souleater.
However, this can all be tied into the theme of the rune if we look at the powers of the Rune of Life and Death more closely and the type of powers that it grants to the bearer. The type of damage that the Rune of Life and Death causes is not physical damage. It is instead damage that is inflicted directly against the life force of the target. Someone that was killed by the Rune of Life and Death would not have any physical damage apparent. The way I interpret the damage that the Souleater causes is that the Souleater is 'sipping' at the lifeforce of the target, consuming a small part of it which is expressed by the game as damage. This can be healed, just like any other wound, over time. This is the expression of the death part of the rune.
Where then is the Life part of the rune? Well, consider this; we have no other example of a rune being able to bring somebody back from the dead, as the Rune of Life and Death does in the case of Gremio. Now some people might say that the Flowing rune's Mother Ocean spell can bring people back from the dead, but this is untrue. In battle, if a character falls, they are simply knocked out. Mother Ocean doesn't bring them back from the dead, it simply revives them.
In the case of Gremio, he was indeed dead, his soul had passed beyond this world, and was taken by the Rune of Life and Death. However, because of the influence of the 108 stars, the Rune of Life and Death expressed it's life giving side, and brought Gremio back to life. These 'cursed runes' can, and do, pass into the "beneficial side" of their persona if certain requirements are fulfilled and if the bearer can survive long enough to see this happen.
Why can't the Rune of Life and Death be used to bring other people back from the dead then? My arguement would be that the rune can only bring back the lives of the people that it has directly consumed. The soul of Gremio was contained within the Rune of Life and Death, and so it was able to bring Gremio back. Perhaps the will of the soul contained has something to do with it as well. Perhaps the rune can only bring forth those it has consumed that wish to return. There is no way to know this for sure.
This reasonably explains why the Rune of Life and Death cannot be used to heal people in battle. It has not consumed any part of the souls of your allies, and so it has nothing to give back to them. As I stated before, the powers of the Rune of Life and Death do not effect the physical being of the target, but directly interacts with the target's lifeforce.
I think this is a good description of the powers that the Rune of Life and Death has, and a resonable explanation for the expression of them as they stand in the games. |
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Elzamine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Bringing back Gremio from the dead is a pretty big life side of the rune, very true. Good theory, Kalidor.
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Buff
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Elzamine wrote: |
| Bringing back Gremio from the dead is a pretty big life side of the rune, very true. Good theory, Kalidor. |
you gotta remember that lenkaat's true rune also played a big part of that.
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Milan Fiori
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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As did the coming together of the 108 stars. But it was because Gremio's soul was still intact that it was able to happen though.
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FabledHero
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well basically, it may have the ability to bring back life, but that we dont' really know. I mean Gremio coming back could just be due to Leknaat's assistance. Or maybe Leknaat only helped Tir manifest the full potential of the rune. For the bearer to reach the ability to ressurect people, might take a lifetime.
Or maybe it just means, the rune has the ability to take life, and kill, thus the rune of life and death. It holds power over life, and steals their soul. |
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Inko
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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The type of damage that the Rune of Life and Death causes is not physical damage.
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When Ted had come back from the castle in Gregminster, It is said that he had strange wounds on his body, I do beleave. |
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Milan Fiori
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| For the bearer to reach the ability to ressurect people, might take a lifetime. |
Well, good thing his has till Time ends, to get it right.
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Ikano
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Kalidor wrote: |
| This reasonably explains why the Rune of Life and Death cannot be used to heal people in battle. It has not consumed any part of the souls of your allies, and so it has nothing to give back to them. As I stated before, the powers of the Rune of Life and Death do not effect the physical being of the target, but directly interacts with the target's lifeforce. |
Hmm...if this is true...then the question now would be why can the Rune heal in Suikoden 4....
perhaps the only close-minded arguement that I can think of to explain that is that the original creator had left by the time Suikoden 4 came out and that the rune was not meant to ever heal at all...
....HMM....Although this also sort of gets me thinking another way...if it's to say that it's correct that the Souleater rune does damage by eating souls/lifeforce of enemies I would think that by eating the 'souls' of it's enemies it would make sense then that it could possibly (if only) heal it's bearer (by having the enemies absorbed souls/lifeforce be transferred from the rune to the bearer's body)?
You could technically see it as...extending the life force of the bearer. Although True Rune bearers are 'immortal' anyhow so the next best interpretation would be by absorbing life force you make yourself more energetic (as these two are often equated to each in other such stories/etc) And by becoming more energetic you have a greater will to fight hence to the enemy it appears a previously serious injury does not bother you...aka you seem healed to them.
I guess what I'm trying to theorize is that I'd think it's still possible to heal with the Souleater rune.....
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Last edited by Ikano on Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FabledHero
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Inko wrote: |
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The type of damage that the Rune of Life and Death causes is not physical damage.
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When Ted had come back from the castle in Gregminster, It is said that he had strange wounds on his body, I do beleave. |
Wasn't that due to him clashing with Windy? |
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FabledHero
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Milan Fiori wrote: |
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| For the bearer to reach the ability to ressurect people, might take a lifetime. |
Well, good thing his has till Time ends, to get it right. |
Well.....assuming he never losses the rune. Ted had like what 300-400 years, that'sa pretty good amount of time, but ya by lifetime i was thinking more along the lines of a few hundred years of like actively using it. I don't think Tir would ever get to that level of mastery because he decided he liked the quiet life better. |
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