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Rokkaku Hamlet And The Samurai

 
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Rokkaku Hamlet And The Samurai Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is something thats always confused me greatly. Rokkaku Hamlet, a village destroyed during the Gate Rune Wars, was reconstructed outside Toran, and technically in Dunan, where there are random samurai monsters roaming around outside it. Rokkaku Hamlet, supposedly being the closest thing to Japanese culture in Suikoden must seem fairly out of place in both Toran and Dunan, although admittingly, Toran has some fairly Japan-esque architecture in some places, but even they are actually Chinese, I think.

Is the whole Rokkaku Hamlet/Ninja/Samurai thing just because the developers are Japanese, or is there something more to that? Perhaps even signalling that places like Katana could be east of Toran itself? Maybe it's something the developers could be thinking about.
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AA

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

*sigh* Why is everything about Katana.

Put simply, in the west a lot of people associate Samurai with Ninja, that could be the reason.

Also perhaps it was meant to represent the fighting between the two sides, afterall Ninjas train in that forest or the monsters could just look like Samurai and not be real people.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's just that Rokkaku Hamlet seems very out of place in Toran.

AA wrote:
*sigh* Why is everything about Katana.


Sure it is? :roll:
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think it has anything to do with Katana, but that is just a random guess from me. We must first consider that these samurais are monsters. Although they do look like samurais, who knows what lies underneath the armor? It must be some generic monster who somehow got hold of a samurai-like costume or it is another kind of monster species at all. Who knows. They may even be real humans.

But the real reason why I don't think it has anything to do with Katana is because I imagine that nation to be an island on the far eastern/north-eastern side of the Suikoden world. I know my guess isn't that strong, but that's how Japanese themed nations wind up in RPGs, and I think Suikoden will also follow in with the bandwagon. But yeah, I don't really know.

I could say the same thing to those Mirage monsters. They awfully look and act like Yuber and Pesmerga, although we aren't really sure whether or not they have some sort of relationship with both of them, but that's entirely another topic.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I just mentioned Katana as a possibility, I'm mainly confused by Rokkaku Hamlet's place in Toran. It just seems since the developers of Konami are mostly Japanese themselves, they'd understand that Rokkaku Hamlet doesn't really belong in Toran. Also, that Toran seems to represent Chinese culture, not Japanese, it just makes no sense to me.

Ryusei wrote:
But the real reason why I don't think it has anything to do with Katana is because I imagine that nation to be an island on the far eastern/north-eastern side of the Suikoden world. I know my guess isn't that strong, but that's how Japanese themed nations wind up in RPGs, and I think Suikoden will also follow in with the bandwagon. But yeah, I don't really know.


Yes well, technically, if you look at the Suikoden world map, if Katana was east of Toran, it would be quite North-Eastern to the rest of the world, just meaningless speculation though.

The mirage monsters I suppose could be linked to a similar situation, only thing with them is that we don't think Pesmerga and Yuber are from the Highland Kingdom.
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Uji wrote:
Yes well, technically, if you look at the Suikoden world map, if Katana was east of Toran, it would be quite North-Eastern to the rest of the world, just meaningless speculation though.

Well, that could be. I took a peek at John's Suikoden map at his site and I can say that it is possible. But I think that if Katana would be indeed located there, why would they bother with infesting Banner pass with their samurais? It does not make much sense to me. But that's assuming that Katana is indeed an island north-east of Toran. If not, I'd stick with my guess that those samurai monsters are just mere monsters until I see katana for myself.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ryusei wrote:
Uji wrote:
Yes well, technically, if you look at the Suikoden world map, if Katana was east of Toran, it would be quite North-Eastern to the rest of the world, just meaningless speculation though.

Well, that could be. I took a peek at John's Suikoden map at his site and I can say that it is possible. But I think that if Katana would be indeed located there, why would they bother with infesting Banner pass with their samurais? It does not make much sense to me. But that's assuming that Katana is indeed an island north-east of Toran. If not, I'd stick with my guess that those samurai monsters are just mere monsters until I see katana for myself.


True, theres a new nation east of Falena anyway, that could be Katana or any other different nation, according to the war game it's there though. :P But it's all just speculation, and I think the developers just wanted to add a little bit of Japan into the game.
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Kalidor

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks for posting up the link to that map, Ryusei. I think that it helps to illuminate Rokkaku's position in the Toran Republic. Keep in mind that Rokkaku hamlet isn't a commonly known area so I doubt that Jowston would lay a claim to it. Also, the are that it is located is largely just mountain and forest with very little access. If anything I would call Roakkaku a village that is in an area that could theoretically be claimed by either side without this actually making very much difference. It is unlikely that anyone would ever go to war over such a rugged, inhospitable, and insignificant area. However, because the only significant population in the area claims allegiance to the Toran Republic, the area officially belongs to them. After all an official border post (the one that is guarded by Varkas) is quite near the village and has some kind of military presence, whereas Banner Village seems to be all but forgotten by the government in Muse.

Another thought just occured to me. If Jowston did wish to make a claim on Rokkaku, if we look at the actual geography of the in game area, they would have one heck of a time trying to get an army to it. Those cliffs would be almost impassable by an army. Rokkaku has superior position on the cliff tops. As well, the Toran army would not have any blockages to sending troops to the area to reinforce. Even a small number of troops with that kind of advantage in terrain would be able to hold off a much longer force for a very long time. There might be alternate routes that didn't involve having to go up those cliffs, but if it's uphill one way it's likely uphill from all approaches.

As to the "samurai" that are in the area of Rokkaku village as a random encounter, I think that Ryusei put it best. They might look like samurai, yes, however they are monsters that might simply have that appearance. We don't know that these are humans that have donned this armor and come to the Rokkaky area with the sole purpose of way laying and the evidence against this idea seems pretty clear.

If we look at monsters that you come across in random encounters everywhere in the world, I think we have to come to the assumption that for most people they are part of the natural flora and fauna of the world. We don't see any nations or regions that complain about having a significant monster problem and go out to actively hunt down and destroy this problem. However, when it comes to humans, even bandits, we have a pretty clear example that these are not tolerated. The Mt. Seifu bandits in Suikoden had your party sent out to solve the problem, and the Lampdragon bandits in Suikoden II as well. If these Samurai types were human, something that wasn't a naturally occuring phenomena in the area, then I think there is a precedent for them being dealt with, either by the ninjas of Rokkaku themselves or by the Toran border guard. This does not happen however so I have to assume that the samurai are simply monsters, a naturally occuring phenomena in the area.

As to the thing about Japanese vs. Chinese influences, I don't think the arguement particularly is relevant. It's a fictional fantasy world and just because it bares resemblance to one particular thing doesn't mean that it couldn't have elements of another. Pannu Yakuta, for example, seems strikingly like a European castle to my eye and Kwanda Rosman a fully armored European knight. However this is a fantasy country so it doesn't bother me, nor does it seem like anything that is particularly out of place. The same thing for the ninjas of Rokkaku.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They are monsters, what they look like don't matter. In the forest path to Highland you run into bandits, bees, fighting rabbits, and fuzzy things, and wolves. Then in the Cave of Wind you run into minotaurs, griffins, sorcerers, and giant sun men. I can see why the minotaurs and even the griffins would be there, but why the sorcerers or the giant sun men?

As for Katana's location we will have wait until more is revealed.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Uji, come on, you're really pushing it now. That's like asking if New armes is next to Harmonia because of Caleria. Calm down with the Katana thing. The answer is "Ninjas are cool" followed immediately by "Well why shouldn't we put Samurai there Bill? God, you're always so down on us."
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
This is something thats always confused me greatly. Rokkaku Hamlet, a village destroyed during the Gate Rune Wars, was reconstructed outside Toran, and technically in Dunan, where there are random samurai monsters roaming around outside it. Rokkaku Hamlet, supposedly being the closest thing to Japanese culture in Suikoden must seem fairly out of place in both Toran and Dunan, although admittingly, Toran has some fairly Japan-esque architecture in some places, but even they are actually Chinese, I think.


If you were to ask a ninja of Rokkaku if they are a part of either Toran or Dunan, my guess is the ninja would most likely say neither. As for the Samurai my guess is that since nothing is mentioned anywhere in any publication about them, they are simply a monster the party has to fight and is there only for gameplay purposes. I don't view them to be anymore important than furfurs.

As for Rokkaku being out of place in Toran, I'd say its no more out of place than Dwrves, Elves and kobolds being crammed in the same small region, or a "warrior village" with completely different customs and traditions than the rest of Toran (the same applies to the Dragon Knights). Toran is a melting pot of many different cultures, and besides that Rokkaku isn't really part of Toran or Dunan--not even as an autonomous region. Rokkaku does what it pleases, it would seem, and doesn't take orders from either one.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Scarlet Assassin is completely right. Rokkaku exists in Toran because every video game has ninjas.

Hell, they aren't even real historical ninja either. Look at Kasumi. Not a ninja. Just some Asian chick in a pink hooker outfit that looks like its from the 80s. And Mizuki. Just because the game says she's a ninja doesn't actually make her one. She's just some hot chick wearing...wearing...I don't even know what to call her outfit. Hot, I suppose. But I don't buy her or Akaghi as ninja either.

These kinds of ninja are no different than anime ninja (like you'd see on Naturo).

This isn't the only time Suikoden warps the realm of plausibility in terms of character types. Look at the knights in Falena. There is no freaking way someone like Miakis would ever become a knight in anything besides a video game (her gender aside). She only exists as a knight because the game needs a spunky and cute anime girl to accompany the party at certain times.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hey I'm not arguing as to whether Miakis would make a realistic knight or not, I was merely speculating, maybe I could be right in the future who knows? :P
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Scarlet Assassin

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hayashi Ujitsuna wrote:
Hey I'm not arguing as to whether Miakis would make a realistic knight or not, I was merely speculating, maybe I could be right in the future who knows? :P


Yeah, and maybe fire doesn't taste so bad once it cools down. Just because something's possible doesn't mean it's likely.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

But it is possible! Muahaha.
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