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Teleporting in Suikoden
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Mirage wrote:
the one thing that really irks me is that Viki can teleport hundreds of years through time, but can't teleport to another country in whatever game you play.


While you have a point, gameplay aspects just destroy it, that country isn't even on that Suikoden CD you're playing with, it'd be a heck of a lot of work for Konami to start adding countries to teleport to optionally.

Mirage wrote:
Another type of time travel/teleportation is the Star Dragon Sword in Suikoden I when it takes you to the Village of the Hidden Rune 300 years in the past.


Well it's very debatable as to whether they left the cave at all, it could've just been an illusion.

Mirage wrote:
It is a strange phenomenon that the destroyers can teleport. It may be an ancient Sindar secret, or an excuse from Konami...who knows? As far as Sydonia, his reminds me of some super ninja swooshy technique thing. Suikoden I was known for clichés, though.


Well we know one thing, if they couldn't teleport they'd have a lot of running to do, The Grassland and Zexen are big.
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Uji wrote:
Well it's very debatable as to whether they left the cave at all, it could've just been an illusion.

I can't really say that what the Star Dragon Sword did was just an illusion. The treasure chests in the village of the hidden rune proves that. The treasures you get from this place are still in your inventory even after you leave the village.

While it may be argued that the chests are there for gameplay purposes, there is always the choice for Konami to not place any treasures there in the first place. Why even place treasures in there if they are just illusions? It just isn't logical. Although I can't really say this for sure.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ryusei wrote:
Uji wrote:
Well it's very debatable as to whether they left the cave at all, it could've just been an illusion.

I can't really say that what the Star Dragon Sword did was just an illusion. The treasure chests in the village of the hidden rune proves that. The treasures you get from this place are still in your inventory even after you leave the village.

While it may be argued that the chests are there for gameplay purposes, there is always the choice for Konami to not place any treasures there in the first place. Why even place treasures in there if they are just illusions? It just isn't logical. Although I can't really say this for sure.


This isn't the topic to get into this argument, however this one is, where I stated my views a long time ago.

http://www.suikox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12366&start=0
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Kobold




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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Woah my topic is still alive...

The destroyers teleporting isn't really all that strange. Luc and Sarah has been addressed as powerful sorcery users, so teleporting would just be one of the skills they know. Yuber isn't human, and i supposed it wouldn't be strange for a summoned creature to know how to teleport... it's probably one of the mystical skill thing...

This is further supported by the fact that Albert, a mundane human can't teleport. He inteads owns the ability to summon, and summons forth a monster to teleport him...

And Suikoden 4 kinda screws Ted up... In S4, Ted was almost the strongest mage in the game... Which defies the reasoning of Ted not magic proficient, hence didn't learn teleporting... Then again, it could just mean that he is magically inclined, but isn't a magician by profession and has no interest in studying magic.

Addressing the points of Suikoden 5, Zerase is another person who could teleport. This is within reason since she's not only a magic person, but also a mysterious one, thereby fulfiling both criteria...

Now i've got another question... Jeane... Can she teleport? I'd say highly likely... There really isn't any reason why she might not be able to... A magic person and mysterious to boot... Not to mention the non human part... Besides, she teleports in the battle sequence in S4...
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kobold wrote:
This is further supported by the fact that Albert, a mundane human can't teleport. He inteads owns the ability to summon, and summons forth a monster to teleport him...


I think that "summoning" such as the case with Albert and Leon Silverberg summoning Yuber, has nothing to do with magic or runes. Instead I think it's incantation or something like that, Albert and Leon never, ever show any magical prowess. I also think the monster we see at the end of Suikoden III, that teleports Albert somewhere may be to do with that as well. If a Silverberg wants to do something magical, then someone else is used to do it for them, they can never to do it themself.

This may be just speculation, but to me, it's more plausible than Albert and Leon using some kind of magic to their ends. Their weapon is their brain, and it is the most formiddable of all.
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Uji wrote:
This may be just speculation, but to me, it's more plausible than Albert and Leon using some kind of magic to their ends. Their weapon is their brain, and it is the most formiddable of all.

It may be true that Albert and Leon aren't really much of magic experts at all, but that doesn't mean that we already could rule out the possibility that they indeed used magic in order to summon Yuber.

We must remember first that the Suikoden world revolves around the runes. Many of these runes are closely related to magical powers, and monsters as well. Take for example the Blue Gate Rune. With it, users can summon monsters from another dimension. This leads to another possibility that Albert and Leon used some kind of magic power similar to that of the Blue Gate rune.

Also, it doesn't mean that just because they aren't good with magic, they can't use it at all. As far as I have seen, most (if not all) of the people have rune slots located in his/her own body. While it may be true that some are better compared to others when it comes to magic ability, it doesn't mean that those who aren't good with magic can't use runic magic at all. Some of them are just better at it, I suppose.

All in all, the most plausible reason I have when it comes to the summoning of Yuber is through magic. It may not necessarily be runic magic, but probably another kind of magic which Sarah and the others do with their teleportation and whatnot. We must also consider that Windy was able to gain the help of Yuber as well. I am certain that Windy's tactical skill isn't the same level as Leon's and Albert's, but her magic skill is far greater than both of them. This makes me think all the more that magic is used to summon Yuber.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"We must also consider that Windy was able to gain the help of Yuber as well. I am certain that Windy's tactical skill isn't the same level as Leon's and Albert's, but her magic skill is far greater than both of them. This makes me think all the more that magic is used to summon Yuber."

I think it might have also been a situation of interests here. Windy was looking for another True Rune and causing massive desetruction in her wake. Yuber loves Chaos. Yuber decides to work for Windy in order to do that.

Also, it is clear that Yuber was Windy's subordinate. It's very likely that she is as if nto more powerful that Yuber and he could have been working for her because of that.

Of course, it's also very possible (probable) that she summoned him with her Gate Rune to be her minion :)
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ryusei wrote:
We must remember first that the Suikoden world revolves around the runes. Many of these runes are closely related to magical powers, and monsters as well. Take for example the Blue Gate Rune. With it, users can summon monsters from another dimension. This leads to another possibility that Albert and Leon used some kind of magic power similar to that of the Blue Gate rune.


But I think I must also point you to the fact that there are a number of factors in the Suikoden world that have nothing to do with runes. Like Sarah, she has all these strange powers of projection, yet only a Rage and Flowing rune on her body. Leon and Albert never ever enter fights themselves, unless you count the war battles, but that would be stupid. I'm not saying it can't happen that Albert and Leon Silverberg can't and didn't use runes to "summon" Yuber, however I'm saying in my view, it's very unlikely, to say the least.

Ryusei wrote:
All in all, the most plausible reason I have when it comes to the summoning of Yuber is through magic. It may not necessarily be runic magic, but probably another kind of magic which Sarah and the others do with their teleportation and whatnot. We must also consider that Windy was able to gain the help of Yuber as well. I am certain that Windy's tactical skill isn't the same level as Leon's and Albert's, but her magic skill is far greater than both of them. This makes me think all the more that magic is used to summon Yuber.


So you agree with me now? :D I'm so happy. Then again, I object to the idea of Albert and Leon having some God-given ability since birth, I really think they found a book and said a line from it, just like in the movie beetlejuice! :P
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Milan Fiori

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it was stated that summon of monsters was a ritual that Leknaat passed down to Luc and Sarah, who in turn probably passed it down to Albert. I think Yuber has an infinity with the monsters and is able to summon them on his own. Also Luc has teleported several times before Suikoden III. He teleported in Suikoden I and II to your castle when you first recruit him from Leknaat. So it's a plausible idea that it is also another ritual, and not runic magic.

It was also stated that summoning Yuber is also a simple ritual. However the ritual has either been mostly forgotten, or Yuber needs a good reason to stick around. Such as war, and chaos. Windy probably knew this ritual, and it was stated that Leon also knew it. So Leon summoned Yuber in Suikoden II, to help Highland. He then passed this ritual down to Albert and/or Ceaser, and Albert summoned Yuber for Suikoden III.

If it is just a ritual, then it may not need innate magic ability but rather the knowledge of how to do it. If it DOES need innate magic ability, then perhaps Leon passed down the knowledge to Jowdy so he could perform it. While Albert taught the ritual to Luc or Sarah.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reminder.... Summoning isn't the topic... Teleporting is...

Anyway, with regards to Albert and Leon, i personally feel that it is simply a method of a ritual of some sort that allows the summoning of Yuber. As we've seen, magic exists beyond simply runic magic. Sorcery is something used by Leknaat and Windy, and also by Luc and Sarah. Summoning is a form of sorcery.

Of course, i'm not suggesting that Albert and Leon knows sorcery... That's ridiculous... They probably just know the method of summoning... While summoning probably requires magic skills as well, that doesn't mean that they can't be used by other people. Suikoden has shown that every person is capable of using magic through runes. While, this isn't runes, since magic through runes can be used by anyone, one would assume that magic itself can be used by anyone. In this case, it's just whether you know how to use it or not.

As such, it is not impossible for Albert and Leon to know summoning, which they obviously do as they've demonstrated through summoning yuber, and by Albert who was seen summoning a monster other than yuber. It's probably just that since they're magic abilities aren't that high, they can't summon all that often. We definitely didn't see Albert being involved in the monster mob summonings...

Or ultimately, we can just throw everything at the Sindars.... Since basically so far, anything that isn't due to runes is due to the sindars... As such, it makes is plausible that the summoning method Leon and Albert used was obtained from some kind of sindarin text...

Now back to teleporting... Yeah that's magic... Except for Ninja dudes.... That's a mystical technique... Whatever you can call that...
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