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Would it be better if the elves had a country??
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sailor Sexy wrote:
Really though, I don't see the elves having their own country, unless you're talking one very small country. As has been pointed out, elves simply aren't a very populous race, so really they could populate one, maybe two villages, but not the dozens you'd expect in an entire nation.


Who knows, maybe the elves of the Suikoden reproduce like rabbits? The Western Continent could be full of elves for all we know. Maybe the elves from the other parts of the world only migrated from their real home country, if they have one. Take a look at the description of elves at Theirstar. It says that the elves encompass more parts of the world than other races. You can't assume that elves aren't populous based on your own description of elves.
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Masa

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well. Elves have more settlements than any other non-human race to. But in Toran, for example, elves are outnumbered by Kobolds and Dwarves. (Granted, having their home torched did little to help their population).
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's just difficult to see a large region in the Suikoden world as having a large population of elves. This would entail that the elves is still a major, thriving race instead of the small forest communities that they've shown as having in the games, so far. If the elves did have a nation to call their own then it would've been mentioned in passing in the five games released. Nothing of that size, especially populated by a long-lived race, would have escaped noticed by wandering Stars of Destinies and merchants. It's best the elves just remain a unique, albeit small group of people like the dwarves and other non-human cultures. This is the time of Man and it's best to look ahead instead of backwards.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Tullaryx wrote:
It's best the elves just remain a unique, albeit small group of people like the dwarves and other non-human cultures. This is the time of Man and it's best to look ahead instead of backwards.


Well, that only really applies if Suikoden follows the old, old, old, old, oooold notion of the elves being a dying race and so on.

There's really nothing to suggest that Man is coming into its own and the others are declining. As far as the series has shown, it's always been the way it is.

That, and, well, it's a big world. While I wouldn't imagine a huge nation of elves, I suppose a small state isn't out of the question. There are at least two landmasses we know next to nothing about, after all.
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Masa

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to see some races have their own signicant region. Maybe not a country, but more than a token city. Something to at least justify their presence in the game.
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Sailor Sexy

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ryusei wrote:
You can't assume that elves aren't populous based on your own description of elves.


I'm hardly using my own description of elves. How about we look at game facts? We have seen, as far as I can remember, 2 actual villages devoted to elves, one of which was burned to the ground with a decent percentage of its population killed. We encounter 2, maybe 3 elves per game as far as Stars of Destiny are concerned. Compare that to the hundreds of humans that we've seen. Yes, we don't know what's on the western continent, for all we know it could be all elves (I in fact suggested that if you'll read my previous post) but all we have to take a sample from is the eastern continent. Based on the sample we get from the eastern continent and what's been shown thus far in five games, there is nothing to suggest that elves are but a very sparsely populated race.

Facts can always change, the do whenever new evidence comes out, but that has never stopped anyone from declaring that based on existing evidence what is said is fact. Based on the existing evidence spanned across 5 games encompassing 5 regions, we can say that elves are not populous enough to have a very large presence in any sizeable area to call it a nation of elves.
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Ryusei

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sailor Sexy wrote:
I'm hardly using my own description of elves. How about we look at game facts? We have seen, as far as I can remember, 2 actual villages devoted to elves, one of which was burned to the ground with a decent percentage of its population killed. We encounter 2, maybe 3 elves per game as far as Stars of Destiny are concerned. Compare that to the hundreds of humans that we've seen. Yes, we don't know what's on the western continent, for all we know it could be all elves (I in fact suggested that if you'll read my previous post) but all we have to take a sample from is the eastern continent. Based on the sample we get from the eastern continent and what's been shown thus far in five games, there is nothing to suggest that elves are but a very sparsely populated race.

Facts can always change, the do whenever new evidence comes out, but that has never stopped anyone from declaring that based on existing evidence what is said is fact. Based on the existing evidence spanned across 5 games encompassing 5 regions, we can say that elves are not populous enough to have a very large presence in any sizeable area to call it a nation of elves.


Well, have you seen the entire world of Suikoden? You haven't, have you?

There is always the possibility that the elves have a country of their own. After all, much is still left as a mystery to us. You can't say that the elves aren't populous from what what small information about the Suikoden world we've been given. What if Konami decides to make a new continent full of elves? We've only seen like 5 countries yet. What if one of the yet unknown countries are full of elves. You can't just conclude something without taking into consideration all the possibilities. Remember, the Suikoden world is not yet completely revealed to us.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

One may also note that we have seen more elves in the series than we have seen some other recurring character types, including ones we know have their own country.

ELVES
Kirkis, Sylvina, Stallion, Nei, Selma, Urda, Isato

KANAKAN SWORDS...PEOPLE
Valeria, Anita, Kika?, Belcoot

KATANA 'SAMURAI'
Genshu, Hazuki

It is possible that elves have their own country/territory, as most elves tend to be quite reclusive there is every chance that we have been right by their cities without knowing. I mean look at the evidence. The Great Tree was burned down, but the elves still had that forest that you needed an elf to guide you through. This means there could have been a city in the middle of that forest that noone found.

In Suiko 2 and Suiko 3 we only saw lone elves that were doing their thing alone, but Suiko 4 went back to the hidden town/city idea. If you go to Na-Nal the most you get to see of the elf city is one tree... ever consider that the entire forest may be their city?

Suiko 5 again gives us reason to believe there may be quite a vast city of the elves, but with attitudes like Urda's its easy to see why the elves keep their cities hidden.

Perhaps they have their own land, perhaps they only have these cities spread across the world. Chances are we'll never know since all the elves we've run into seem to have this disdain for humans that seems to be a common predjudice.

What would be interesting however would be to have an elf tenkai, starting off in the elf 'utopia' I guess they would call it, then being pulled into a barbarous human war and seeing mankind from this other perspective.
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Rainrir

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Unfortunately, the elves of the Suikoden world are TOO typecast to be a race of choice for a Tenkai. The elves are almost uniformly charcaterised four ways, with almost no variation in character.

Sylvina, Urda and Selma (somewhat) are the "I-HATE-HUMANS" archtype.

Stallion and Nei are the "I-AM-A-ELVEN-OUTCAST" achtype.

Isato and Roland are practically the same person...with the "I-AM-STERN-LOYAL-AND-SENSIBLE....-LIKE-A-BRIT" archtype.

Kirkis and Paula fits the "I-AM-KINDA-PASSIVE-AGGRESIVE" kind of elf.

Given that, a story happening IN a nation of elves and with an elven tenkai is really gonna be pretty boring. The Elves simply do not show the variation of character we see in human characters. Furthermore, the elves are generally "racist" ACROSS THE BOARD from in Toran to the Island Nations to Falaena. Making a elven tenkai that can unite everyone, which will include non-elves, seem pretty big of a strench.

I tend to believe that the elves are kind like the elves of LOTR. They do not really have a nation per se, but live in the untouched forests of established nations. They can be said to be a kind of nation-within-a-nation, like the automonous Mongolia in China or Native American Preserves in USA.

If that is true...

This raises an interesting point...what IS the status of elves in Harmonia? I mean alot of them COULD have blonde hair and blue eyes. They look sufficiently close to humans(unlike drawves or kobolds)and are aesthetically pleasing (to humans). Given that in Harmonia, central control of power is extremely tight...I wonder if the elves can keep their Nation-within-nation status...or are they integrated in Harmonia society?
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Masa

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are there elves in Harmonia? If there were, I imagine like the Alseid Elves, they'd be extremely separated from society. Them submitting to human will would seem unlikely. Granted, a few generations of subjujation and any ideas of superiority will be pretty much thrown away.

I think elves (and pretty much any race) representing their own region (in the sense you have Dana Region, Greenhill Region, etc...) would be nice instead of sort of cramming the non-humans together like in Suikoden 1 and 2. At the very least being separate enough to have an identity beyond being 'not human'.
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Assassin01

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would rather prefer the elves and other races being split into different parts of the suikoden world to add a bit of flavour to the Suikoden games and the 108 stars of destiny. It would be good to have it this way rather than having 108 human characters in the stars of destiny.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rainrir wrote:

I tend to believe that the elves are kind like the elves of LOTR. They do not really have a nation per se, but live in the untouched forests of established nations. They can be said to be a kind of nation-within-a-nation, like the automonous Mongolia in China or Native American Preserves in USA.


Didn't the elfs in LOTR have an immortal land they had to return? They are elves settlements everywhere, but they have their land.

If that's true, we could have an elf's main land, where elves originated. A true rune might be in elf's hands.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The way I see it, all the elves scattered all over what we have seen of the Suiko World look about the same, and all have the same thoughts about humans. I don't think it would be too crazy to think there's a nation of elves. The word "settlement" always reminds me of the word "colony". Perhaps all the elves originally came from one place, and moved to several other places, making settlements or colonies?

I honestly think that isn't too farfetched.
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