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How ABOUT Konami finally throws Suikoden a budget!
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The-Traitor-McDohl

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Gremio wrote:

On a technical level, you could say Suiko 4 gets a lot of thing "better": progressive scan mode, high resolution backgrounds, fully 3D environments with self-controlled camera and even first person view... and the loading times were not as many.

I guess the budget for both games was pretty much the same - yet Suiko 5 team was wiser to use it, focusing on the key aspects of the series (imho, of course).

Actually, I think that the Suiko 4 team was more wise to use the Silent Hill 4 engine instead of building from the ground-up.
On another note, it's hard to argue that S5 did more things right than S4, but it did come close to what S2 was (just like S4 came close to what S1 was).
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Gremio




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The-Traitor-McDohl wrote:
Gremio wrote:

On a technical level, you could say Suiko 4 gets a lot of thing "better": progressive scan mode, high resolution backgrounds, fully 3D environments with self-controlled camera and even first person view... and the loading times were not as many.

I guess the budget for both games was pretty much the same - yet Suiko 5 team was wiser to use it, focusing on the key aspects of the series (imho, of course).

Actually, I think that the Suiko 4 team was more wise to use the Silent Hill 4 engine instead of building from the ground-up.
On another note, it's hard to argue that S5 did more things right than S4, but it did come close to what S2 was (just like S4 came close to what S1 was).


That engine was unnecessarily overpowered for Suikoden: since most environments were lacklustre and dull, what was the point to have a first person view?

S5 did much more right - the characters are more memorable, the story better written, the length and the scope of the game are satisfying, especially the raw number of cities and locations. 4 suffered a lot from this, the SME/Toran was much more fleshed out than Gaien/I.N./Koluuk.

It's true that S4 tried to be a sort of polygonal version of I, but it falls short on that, meaning that it doesn't achieve the same playbility and level of drama. On the other hand, I don't see so many points of contact between II and V, besides both being "classical suikoden" (as opposed to III) and bigger in scope than I.

P.S. it's nice to discuss here, but remember to keep it spoiler-free as I'm playing V right now - almost near the end.
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Sailor Sexy

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, I have to wonder just how many copies of the Suikoden games get sold. Yes, it has a very dedicated core group of fans, but like any entertainment property, no matter how vocal the fans are, if there's only a relatively small group of them spending money on said property, it's not going to get a huge budget. And while the Suikodens are in a way stand alones, there's stuff you won't really get if you haven't been following it the whole time. Big name games like the Final Fantasy's, while arguably inferior with story, are more user friendly because you don't need to have played the prior ones to get everything in the current game. Higher budget does not always equate to a better game. I think story is the most important aspect of the game, and you don't need a high budget to think up a good story, you just need creativity.
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ah, is the budget the reason why the translations have been crappy so far?
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Leon Silverberg

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yvl wrote:
Ah, is the budget the reason why the translations have been crappy so far?


yes, definately a reason for it.. I mean there a hundreds of konami games that had a very excellent translation...

But low budget will force the team and konami to use low budget translation teams...
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The-Traitor-McDohl

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm sure a lot of you out there are playing Final Fantasy XII right now; that game really makes my case.
Yasumi Matsuno and crew have been making low budget titles for years (Ogre Battle > Ogre Tactics > Final Fantasy Tactics > Vagrant Story) and they finally got a REAL budget for FFXII and look what good they could do with that money. All those past games are still great, but FFXII is the only one of them that feels fully realized.
Now, just imagine that the next Suikoden had that kind of money....
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Firefly

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

^I disagree. I'd take Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, FFT or VS over FFXII any day.
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red stuff




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, I've only played FFT and VS, but I think they're much, MUCH better than FFXII. In fact, I think that game's a pretty bad example to use, since in some respects it *doesn't* feel "fully realized" (The story, in particular, struck me as bland and underdeveloped).

I don't care much about technical aspects like graphical quality, and honestly, SV proves that Suikoden doesn't really *need* a huge budget to be good. I didn't even mind things like the load times so much, though they could stand to work on polishing small things like that.
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The-Traitor-McDohl

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Firefly wrote:
^I disagree. I'd take Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, FFT or VS over FFXII any day.

I'm not trying to say that FFXII is better- I'm saying it was more "fully realized" than the rest.
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Firefly

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The-Traitor-McDohl wrote:
Firefly wrote:
^I disagree. I'd take Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, FFT or VS over FFXII any day.

I'm not trying to say that FFXII is better- I'm saying it was more "fully realized" than the rest.


I'm sorry, I should have been more specific. I realize that this is all based off opinion, but I don't think FFXII is fully realized, at all. I think that Ogre Battle, TO, FFT and VS were much more fully realized, for their time, anyway. FFXII fell short in many ways.

The only thing, IMO, that you can say FFXII has over the rest of the games would be the environment, since each city and area I think is beautiful and wonderfully detailed, but we're comparing apples and oranges here, since we're taking about PS1 games vs a last generation PS2 game like 5 years in development.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that having a bigger budget does not have to make a game better, or even more "fully realized", because to me all the games you mention were more fully realized than FFXII. Bad games can have large budgets and vice versa. Like the previous poster mentioned, Suikoden V had a smaller budget and much less development time than FFXII and, besides graphics, I don't think anything about FFXII was more fully realized or better than SV.
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