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Rainrir
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 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| I don't want them to go to the Western Continent just yet. That would cause them to get dangerously close to the end of the series as it was hinted at in Suikoden 3. |
Did you meanm Murayama's statement? Buy he is no longer on the Suikoden Team..even if he WAS the creator of the Suikoden series.
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Admiral Ackbar
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:52 am Post subject: |
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I'll just copy n' paste from the other thread here:
Uh...so...has anyone actually confirmed this statement? That site just mentions it...it doesn't give any link or source at all. And I haven't heard of any Japanese sites that mention this statement.
Any confirmation at all? Do we need to e-mail the site and ask for a source?
It's been a few weeks now, and no confirmation or source. I'm starting to think you guys have been fooled.
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Malvagio
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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There is so much you can do with Suikoden VI, from the continuation of where Suikoden III was left off to after thought Suikoden V relating to Nagarea/New Armes Kingdom. Personally I think it would be interesting for the High East Rebellion to be the focus of Suikoden VI. It is mentioned a lot in Suikoden III and as the statement of it relating more to other Suikodens, it would involve characters from not only Suikoden II but Suikoden III as well.
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Djungelurban
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Malvagio wrote: |
| There is so much you can do with Suikoden VI, from the continuation of where Suikoden III was left off to after thought Suikoden V relating to Nagarea/New Armes Kingdom. Personally I think it would be interesting for the High East Rebellion to be the focus of Suikoden VI. It is mentioned a lot in Suikoden III and as the statement of it relating more to other Suikodens, it would involve characters from not only Suikoden II but Suikoden III as well. |
Yes, the Higheast Rebellion would be my second choice after the Succession War. I just wanna return to familiar grounds and see some familiar faces. Only prettier! |
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Man, to be honest, I'd really hate it if Suikoden VI is about either Higheast Rebellion or the Succession War. I mean, they both are decent story that's for sure, but I don't want them to be the main storyline of a single game because we already know the outcome and it would not be as interesting when compared to not knowing the outcome of the story.
Part of what makes the storyline interesting is when the players are drawn into the storyline and want to know how it would end. By using Higheast Rebellion or Succession War, the outcome is already clear. There would be no "I wonder how this ends" feeling anymore. We know that the rebellion is stopped, and we know that Barbarossa won the Succession War. While there would be new information revelead throughout the story/game, knowing the outcome really took much out of the enjoyment of the game (imagine reading a crime novel and you already know who the killer is, it's not as fun anymore).
So therefore, I would like the main storyline of Suikoden VI to be something new instead. It can be based on something that we already know like Higheast Rebellion or Succession War, but don't make them the main focus.
Think like how Suikoden V was done. Prior to Suikoden V's release, most of the Suikoden fans thought that Georg killed the Queen because the queen was evil. Most of the fans thought that the story of the assasination was simply Georg involved in a war on the opposite side of the queen and he killed the queen at the end. However, that was apparently very wrong, despite knowing that Georg killed the queen, it was done very differently and not as the main focus of the storyline. Instead, it was used as the beginning of the storyline (the death of Arshtat pretty much "started" the main storyline).
So if it were to be implemented with Higheast Rebellion or Succession War, then maybe the main storyline that I would like to see in Suikoden VI would be something that happened after the end of the rebellion/war which would lead to something new as the main focus of the storyline.
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Malvagio
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Black Pesmerga wrote: |
we already know the outcome and it would not be as interesting when compared to not knowing the outcome of the story.
Part of what makes the storyline interesting is when the players are drawn into the storyline and want to know how it would end. By using Higheast Rebellion or Succession War, the outcome is already clear. There would be no "I wonder how this ends" feeling anymore. |
You know dude, those are actually some very good points! :D I never thought about that at all much, but truly I suppose it makes sense. So then its likely a good guess for Suikoden VI is better fitted for the New Armes/Nagarea plot.
Two countries we know vaquely about and I think a Middle Eastern like theme would be interesting, in which Suikoden hasn't innovated much. Old Armes similiar to the Egyptians and New Armes more of a Arab feel.
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Admiral Ackbar
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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New Armes has more of an Ottoman Empire feel.
I just want the game set after Suikoden 3. I'm tired of the series backtracking. It's time the storyline actually made some progress. Players want to know about Harmonia and Albert Silverberg and Yuber and Sasarai and so many other things...the past has been covered in 3 games now...it's about time we got some answers to mysteries that have bugging us for a decade.
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SuikoGator
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'd have to disagree with the "knowing how it ends would ruin it" argument. I have never had a doubt in any suikoden game I've played that my side would come out on top. So that wouldn't really change much. There's so much more to the story than just "who wins in the end." For that reason, I'd still like to experience the Succesion Wars more than any other time period.
I must say though, that having played Suikoden I when it was first released, and Suikoden II as well, I have never played III (or IV). I really couldn't care less about the whole harmonia story arc, so my opinions must be taken with that in mind. |
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Hawksaber
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, but having a game based on a story that was already told would suck majorly. The negatives far outweigh the positives. |
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| SuikoGator wrote: |
| I'd have to disagree with the "knowing how it ends would ruin it" argument. I have never had a doubt in any suikoden game I've played that my side would come out on top. So that wouldn't really change much. There's so much more to the story than just "who wins in the end." For that reason, I'd still like to experience the Succesion Wars more than any other time period. |
I understand your point, and if you prefer that, by all means do so. However, "knowing how it ends" doesn't simply mean "I know that we, the players, are going to win the war". It goes far beyond that. We know the extent of how Succession War happened, from the beginning to the end. While not in a very detailed manner, we get the general idea of what is going on. I'll quote it from Suikox's own Timeline.
| Suikox Timeline wrote: |
Solar Year 446: The Succession War
While the Crown Prince Barbarossa Rugner was in the Kunan Region to conduct the annual prayers of good harvest, his uncle, Geil Rugner, removed Barbarossa's right as heir to the throne through the "Abdication Trial." Due to previous work by Geil's right hand man, the Judiciary Assam, all generals of Barbarossa were away from Gregminster: Kasim Hazil was protecting the north, Milich Oppenheimer and Kwanda Rossman were protecting Barbarossa in Kunan, and Kilawher Shulen and Teo McDohl were fighting lake pirates hired by Geil Rugner. Due to this, Geil was able to defeat Barbarossa's forces with ease, at first with the help of Generals "Silver Armored" Schmidt, Kreutz, and Bergen. While escaping from Geil's forces, Barbarossa's wife, Claudia, died.
Barbarossa's forces regrouped at Pannu Yakuta, which became the temporary headquarters for Barbarossa's forces. Here, Kasim Hazil's army strategist, Mathiu Silverberg, suggested that they should to recruit his uncle, Leon Silverberg. Barbarossa quickly recruited Leon, and his forces started to beat back Geil's forces with Leon's tactical genius.
During the war, other notable warriors join Barbarossa's forces, such as Georg Prime, who was included within the Six Great Generals.
Furthermore, Pahn, one of Geil's officers, dueled with Teo McDohl and lost; afterward, he joined Teo and Barbarossa. The Dragon Knights also helped Barbarossa's fight against Geil. Teo began his invasion toward Kwaba with his armored cavalry. With this unstoppable force heading straight for Gregminster, Assam came up with a scheme. He kidnapped Teo's son Tir and held him hostage; he demanded that Teo fight with the armor removed from his cavalry unit.
Gremio was sent to rescue Tir so that Teo could use his armored cavalry. Gremio successfully rescued Tir, allowing Teo to fight at his best. The final battle of the War of Succession took place shortly after at Kwaba, where Geil's generals Schmidt and Bergen fought against Teo's armored cavalry, Ain Gide's cavalry, and Cleo's cavalry. Schmidt, pledging his loyalty to Geil, led a large army of cavalry, wearing his signature silver helmet and armor. However, he and Bergen were defeated and killed by Teo's forces at Kwaba. This concluded the War of Succession. |
I'll break it down for you into separate points of what we already know about The Succession War:
1. We know that it started by the "Abdication Trial" in which Geil Rugner took the throne from Barbarossa.
2. We know that Claudia Rugner died during the escape from the first attack by Geil Rugener.
3. We know that Barbarossa then regrouped and started gathering his army (including strategist in Leon Silverberg, fighter in Georg Prime and even Pahn, and also the Dragon Knights).
4. We know that then Barbarossa started his come-back campaign.
5. We know that Tir was then kidnapped. Soon after rescued by Gremio.
6. We know that the final battle occured at Kwaba.
7. We know that Teo defeated Schmidt and Bergen, and that was the end of The Succession War.
Seriously, while it was not as detailed as if it was to be a game, the information we know was already enough to cover the major events that happened during the war itself (Claudia's death, Barbarossa's regroup, Tir's kidnap, and the final battle). Sure Konami can insert small tidbits here and there, a few extra sidequests too, but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of the story was already known.
And for me, I prefer to be excited and not knowing what was going to happen in the future. I like to be constantly wondering "what will happen next?" rather than already knowing the outcome. Knowing that we are going to win is a given, but knowing how we win is a whole different idea.
But once again, if you still prefer the Succession War, it's of course okay to do so. I just personally don't like the idea. ^^
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skymansxeno
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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The thing about doing the War of Succession is that the cast would be pretty sweet. Georg, Leon, Pahn, Ted and so on so. But like you said I would rather see stuff I haven't seen before. Plus, I somehow doubt-based on what some people at konomi have said- They will not do stories like the HER, the original FC war and War of Succession.
I would put money on Kanakan before any of those. |
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Leon Silverberg
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: |
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I think there is no possibility for a Suikoden with the Sucession War or the High-East Rebellion.
Both Stories are only there to give the whole Suikoden Story a backbone..
The High-East Rebellion was told of in Suikoden 3. I think they only talked about it, to answer the Question "What happened to Highland and Flik and Viktor etc"..
We will see Armes/Nagarea or even Zelant.. |
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Djungelurban
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Black Pesmerga wrote: |
| Man, to be honest, I'd really hate it if Suikoden VI is about either Higheast Rebellion or the Succession War. I mean, they both are decent story that's for sure, but I don't want them to be the main storyline of a single game because we already know the outcome and it would not be as interesting when compared to not knowing the outcome of the story. |
You know what, we DO know how the game ends. Not in detail maybe but in broad strokes. You're gonna win and they're gonna lose. How and in what way and why and such, that's what's uncertain. And that's still true for the Succession Wars and the Higheast Rebellion. The thing is, the wars in Suikoden are always the backdrops for the actual story that circles around the hero and neither of those stories has a known Tenkai. So there's an ocean of knowledge to be discovered.
An even the things we do know might be misinterpretid. Just like you said, we all knew before Suikoden V that Georg in fact killed the Queen of Falena but once we played the game we found out that it was more to it then that. And how knows that there's more to the Succession Wars than we know. In a summarized form it could appear very sleak and neat and straight forward, just like the assasination of Arshtat, but scratch on the surface, who knows what we might find. It's kinda interesting actually. You present a problem with reusing previous knowledge and then incidentally fixes it in the very same post. Weird.
Actually, the fact that we do have knowledge of the events makes them more appealing to me actually. Since both events has been know for such a long time we've formed our own mental picture of how things played out. And it's in those situations where one can really get blown away, when something is turned on it's head and just play out in a way that you just didn't expect.Prepare to be stunned and shocked and bewildered.
| Black Pesmerga wrote: |
1. We know that it started by the "Abdication Trial" in which Geil Rugner took the throne from Barbarossa.
2. We know that Claudia Rugner died during the escape from the first attack by Geil Rugener.
3. We know that Barbarossa then regrouped and started gathering his army (including strategist in Leon Silverberg, fighter in Georg Prime and even Pahn, and also the Dragon Knights).
4. We know that then Barbarossa started his come-back campaign.
5. We know that Tir was then kidnapped. Soon after rescued by Gremio.
6. We know that the final battle occured at Kwaba.
7. We know that Teo defeated Schmidt and Bergen, and that was the end of The Succession War. |
1. This is the kind of info that released in press release long before any game is released. We'd know this before we played it anyway.
2. We're still talking like first few hours here, doesn't really have a huge effect on the game as a whole. And also, within those hours there are alot of thing to discover. We have a brand new tenkai to introduce including his backstory and social sphere. Plenty of new discoveries to be done here.
3. From the time of the escape up til this point we've got hours upon hours of gameplay to go through. The fact that you get a HQ is not surprise at all. And character spoilers aren't really uncommon either. If a character is returning, the fans oftan knows about it ahead of release.
4. What else would he do? I've yet to see a game where everyone just backs down and give up. This is common knowledge, more or less, for every Suikoden.
5. This is the only plot specific spoiler. This I agree is a bit unfortunate, but it's also my number 1 reason for wanting this to get a game. I suspect that this would be a very moving and significant moment in the Gremio/Tir relationship and to see that relationship evolve and grow during the game, which I would suspect would be a central theme, not unlike the Pilika/Jowy relationship but stronger since you know them, is something that I look forward to. And besides, we might get to see how he got his scar. Also, this happens toward the end of the campaign, thus there's a HUGE hole in the plot right there between 4 and 5.
6. We knew that the final battle would be held at Gregminster and at L'Renouille for example and for some of the games the location was harder to guess. But location for the final big battle, is that an issue really?
7. Yup, that ended the Succession War. And how many of the games ends with the end of the war? None! Every game has more or less a seperate final encounter. SI had the most straight forward one, it was basically just an extension of the battle but still it had a different emotional climax than the war. SII's end was pretty much removed from the story of the war and took place in a whole different location and it's the kind of stuff that would never be mentioned in a dry description of the war. SIII the entire war was a smoke screen for what really was going on. The war itself wasn't even that relevant, not in the big picture. SIV... to be honest I never finished it. I got to fight with that big tree but I didn't care to finish it. Such a lackluster experience, I just try not think about it. And part of the problem with SIV is that the war itself was too much of a central theme of the story. But still, big fight with an evil oak, you know what? Not getting into history books. And in SV, the final play out in a location we didn't even know about until after the end of the war. So that's a removed ending alright. And they same could very well be true for a Succession Wars game. I mean, since the Tenkai is unknown, who knows who he is and how he (or she, it could be a she, but Konami will probalby go the route similar to boy with ponytail again) relates to these events. Maybe his story is not that central to the war, he just got sweped up in the larger scheme of things. The ending of the war might very well be fairly removed from the Tenkai's story, which after all is what it's all about. |
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Masa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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I gotta say, Djungelurban has really sold me on the idea of a Succession War game. I always thought it would be more appropriate as like, a Tactics game. But it could even work as a game beyond even that. I'd be a bit worried about the fact we're revisiting old, familiar territory... but it would all be in 3D. It could even allow some involvement of the leftover Kooluk lands south of the Empire. Give us some closure on that region down there that Suikoden Tactics left glaringly open.
My only thoughts would be that Barbarossa would be forty during the Succession War. While I'm all for an adult Tenkai, I think inevitably the position would be filled by some character we have not yet seen. Some youngster somehow associated with Barbarossa that takes on a leading role of some sort. It doesn't overly fit the background of the plot, but it would seem a necessity. It's not Suikoden without some mute teenager mucking about, now is it?
On another hand, it'd be a great opportunity to use the Suikoden III system with multiple perspectives. You'd have Barbarossa as one, obviously. Maybe throw one in with the dragon knights or warrior's village... and you'd want one dealing with Geil Rugner, I should think.
One other piece that could be significant is that the Sovereign Rune ought to be involved on Geil Rugner's side in a big way. That way, if you use a young Tenkai, you can involve another True Rune or some other rare, unique rune.
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Felipe
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Black Pesmerga wrote:
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Think like how Suikoden V was done. Prior to Suikoden V's release, most of the Suikoden fans thought that Georg killed the Queen because the queen was evil. Most of the fans thought that the story of the assasination was simply Georg involved in a war on the opposite side of the queen and he killed the queen at the end. However, that was apparently very wrong, despite knowing that Georg killed the queen, it was done very differently and not as the main focus of the storyline. Instead, it was used as the beginning of the storyline (the death of Arshtat pretty much "started" the main storyline).
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You see, the same way people knew that Geroge killed the Queen but didn't knew how exactly that happened, people know that Barbarossa won the Succession War but don't know how exactly how he did it.
It's like a movie. Like The Lord of the Rings... everyone read the book and knew how the story would end, but we all watched it, just to see with our eyes. The Succession War and Higheast Rebellion were told, but we didn't saw it with our eyes, so we will always be curious about it.
I think Succession War and Higheast Rebellion should become a game someday, but not a main game, maybe like Suikoden Tactics. More a sidestory.
For Suikoden IV is expect something after Suikoden 3 too. I'm wanted to see a game about Tinto. They became a independent nation, something must have happened. Their conflicts with Grasslands/Zexen (can't really remember, but both of them are interesting) are interesting too. I don't think we are going to see Harmonia soon. Actually I guess Harmonia will be the last nation we are going to see. And yeah, that powerfull nation Albert went after Suikoden 3 end is something to think about too. We all know Harmonia as the most powerfull nation, maybe there is a nation to rival Harmonia power.
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