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War Battles!
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Wex Daarus

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I strongly agree with the skills improvement. A new skill system would definately be appreciated (by myself at least), along with something more cuztomizable than the 2 special slot.

Second, I'd like to see more interactive battles. In V it felt a little too planned out. I'd really like to see optional events that turn the tide of battle. Instances such as running Godwin's into Armes' soldiers, or the fire ploy in Doraat, but not required.
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KratosJudgement

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would rather have a war system more like Suikoden 2 it reminded me of my favorite tactical game of all time Fire Emblem in my opinion Suikoden 2 had the best war system.
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Blackjack




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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

More like III than anything else, I'd hope. I liked knowing that the characters and their abilities actually mattered. And also only people that made sense were usable in it (why, for example, were Cornelio and Josephine in the middle of a full blown war? Especially since they didn't care at all about the cause).

Now, I'll be the first to admit that Suikoden III's wars were far from perfect (I do, however, think they were the best in the series), but with a few tweaks (like being able to give your people at least loose commands) it could rock.

Or!

Just bite the bullet and have it be a full blown Shining Force-style Tactics battle.
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trash

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

got another very ambitious idea..

a rome total war type of battle, where the HEROES can be zoomed at, commanded and even see how they would do damage on the enemy ranks.

You can put them in ur control or even AI-control. The AI wont control the regiment movement but will control the "battling" or should i say combat style of the heroes if you want to. Non-heroes or the common soldier would act to what the regiment is commanded to do: Attack, Defend, Guard, Special Formation/Ability such as Charge, Phalanx Formation, Cantabrian Circle Formation.

Have anyone played seiken densetsu 3 or even just secret of mana in snes?? They have something like a Grid where you can tell the unit to go far from the heat of the battle (if he/she is mage cleric or archer type) and go on the heat of the battle when he/she is a close-combat/ physical type of fighter.

With this battle engine, you can zoom in on your Heroes, see them fight then zoom out into a bird's eye view and arange your units'/regiments' formation.

rune regiments are able to cast area of effect spells, which can be a double-edged weapon if the spell is offensive since it will also hit nearby friendly units. If its boost type or healing, make sure only your forces are within the spell's circular area. The ones in the center of the circle will receive more damage/healing while the ones in the perimeter has lesser effects. Meanwhile, your heroes can make single-target spells, given that they are "seen" or in the range of the caster. Casting will have small casting time and even smaller cast delays.

Fighters can also use skills or rune skills and also war skills such as warcry, taunting, jump attack and best of all, DUELING.

The ROTK influence gets here and it is seen with dueling. Im in a rush, so i wont divulge depper into dueling. Its not the dueling the past suikodens gave us. They will still be in real time, if you think you are gonna be beat then withdraw, have some one near heal you. Use rune or magic, he will also do so. Your characters can even gang up on one. Your SoD can die, they can also die. But since the enemy has "plot device" with them, others wont die easily and can be rescued by his troops. Your SoDs also wont die easily especially the ones also covered by the "plot device" cloak. Its just that non-storyline SoDs or should i say, not important SoDs will have a chance to die. Here is where having "bodyguard" character or a "close friend" of the character near will reduce the chances of your SoD dying.

Archer types have ranges and can "snipe" enemy heroes. They can also use their runes or rune skills such as the rune that can hit multiple targets.

More on AI: not only can you tell them their distance from the enemies but you can also program an SoD how to battle example, to keep using magic or rune skills or if he is a 3-rune master, basic attack. Howver, to limit runes so as not to be abused, the engine would implement an after-cast delay. Example, Shin can only use Tarantula every 5 seconds or so.

All of this will be in real time with an option to speed up or slow down the battle speed. Slowing it down will be great if you have all the battle-able stars of destiny under your control.

Also, if its a defense type of battle especially if youre defending your base, the non-battle-type SoDs will participate.

Edit: UNITES can also be used. hehe.. forgot that one, even in the dueling part.
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Archy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Another thing that came to my mind is for your Archers to have the ability to attack two units simultaneously. You could have 50% of the Archer unit attack one group of troops, then you can have the other 50% attack another group, etc. It'd add much more fun, and much more sense. Why waste that much arrows on those thirty people to your right, when you could have some of your Archers attack the thirty men on the left, and the rest to drive back the other unit to your right.

Also, better effects. Take the Wind Rune. Whenever you use the Wind Rune, it conjures wind. That should also force the opponents unit to move, thereby changing their location on the world map. It'd be better, and you could have to plan it carefully, as casting it could possibly force that Unit to get nearer to its goals.

And Viki. She has the ability to teleport people! Why aren't we getting that? Obviously, in 5 that would be unbalanced, since there were a couple of missions in 5 that only requires you to "Get Unit X into Position X." I don't want anymore of those, so Viki should get that. It could also be useful when you're being chased down by a unit faster than you. you could teleport to make the distance between the two farther.
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vampiric




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What i'd like to see
Ability to train the army. I mean, most of time the player's army always had less att, less def, less hp. Perhaps with some minigames, or rare items, or even potch player can choose which general and upgrade his/her army.
Simultanious attack and defense, so a close by ally army can help. I mean, if you facing a single foe with high att, def and hp. You can team two of your army to simultaneously attack, increasing chance of winning and reducing casualties. Or if a dying army under attack from foe, you can use close by army to reinforce in battle reducing chance of losing army and thus chance of losing character.
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Personally, what I'd like to see is something a bit more like Suikoden II (and V) where it seems like you have an army with units with individual strengths. This, over the systems implemented in I, III and IV which made it appear as if you only controlled the Stars of Destiny and that your army was basically 108 people running around shouting stuff. I's was too much of a rock, paper, scissors affair. III was just basically normal party fighting which you've done to death during the game already, and finally IV's which was basically rock, paper, scissors on the sea.

arch_wooohh wrote:
More types of units. They should give Runes a seperate unit from Archers. And more types of Infantry - Sword, Spear, heavy sword, etc.


Now this is some needed fine tuning we need to customise our armies to make them our own. This would be great to use against certain enemies that perhaps cannot be killed any other way (undead, perhaps?).

Malt Hitman wrote:
On the subject of routing, when a unit is routed time shouldn't be stopped for every other unit on the map. Routing should be accompanied with relinquishing control of that unit for a set time/move limit and if another unit is able to successfully attack the routed unit they should either get a large bonus to attack and defense or simply a free attack as the will of the routed unit is broken. If you're worried about how that would work in a RTS system just give the player the ability to pause the game at any time, that should balance things a bit. If it doesn't it would at least be a good step in right direction.


I thought that the time freezing was essential, everytime we were given alot to do, we could use that to manage our armies without getting one side or force completed wiped out without the player realising. Then again when a units routed I agree, if a unit goes down we want to be able to carry on regardless of what the characters going to say. The battle reports telling us if anyone was wounded or killed were useful and gave us the information we needed without having to read through a whole bunch of messages with time frozen.

Acheron wrote:
Quote:
What the hell DID Caesar do anyway?!

He lit poop on fire, that's what! What I want to know is exactley what Elanor did besides tell you that you need allies before starting a war with a strong nation. Duh! Lucretia was a very good strategist but she did virutally everything in the war which left little to be done by player besides chose which theater to watch.

It would be neat to have several strategists on your side that you can choose how to do battle. I was kind of getting to that from what I posted earlier but yall wordified it better. Giving the player more control over strategy would be a plus for war battles, I'd say.


Lucretia made the game seem like it was not a challenge for the Loyalist forces to win at all, it was like the army danced through that war with the Godwins not being that bothered if they lost Falena or not. My stance on her being good strategist is undecided. I do know however that the Godwins are quite possibly the worst enemy ever in Suikoden, made army battles easy, never using anything genius, always being predictable and just randomnly dying after the battles one by one.
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Rezard




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Adding flanks, rear, morale and stamina to the units in war battles would improve then 100%.

Instead of having a screen change every time two unit collide, with the immediate result of the losing side retreating to a random position, they should make the fighting in the war screen without immediate effects, giving you the chance to reinforce critical positions, try to surround the enemy or even ordering a retreat and regroup.

Maybe you could have your base attacked a few times during the game and you could improve your HQ into a stronghold during the game, when you don't have enough man to strike the enemies.
You could prepare your defenses, setting traps, building stronger walls, equipping the towers with ballistas, dropping oil on the troops below, etc.

trash wrote:
rune regiments are able to cast area of effect spells, which can be a double-edged weapon if the spell is offensive since it will also hit nearby friendly units. If its boost type or healing, make sure only your forces are within the spell's circular area. The ones in the center of the circle will receive more damage/healing while the ones in the perimeter has lesser effects. Meanwhile, your heroes can make single-target spells, given that they are "seen" or in the range of the caster. Casting will have small casting time and even smaller cast delays.


This is actually a very good idea. This would make the battle more challenging, like you would have to protect your mages while they chant and also trying to quickly break through the enemies lines to attack enemy mages.

vampiric wrote:
What i'd like to see
Ability to train the army. I mean, most of time the player's army always had less att, less def, less hp. Perhaps with some minigames, or rare items, or even potch player can choose which general and upgrade his/her army.


Also a good idea, maybe the various SoDs could win war points during normal battles and you could use this points to improve your army(learning special skills and improving att.,def, etc), making you use more characters during the game.

Maybe through secret events/minigames you could better equip your army, find a better mounted units, etc.
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Tullaryx

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

trash wrote:
got another very ambitious idea..

a rome total war type of battle.


This was actually one change to the war battle system for the next Suikoden game that I'd mentioned to other players many times since the arrival of S5's realtime war battle system. With Konami set to develop and release S6 onto a nextgen console platform with a game disc that's suppose to allow for tons of storage, why not make use of the advance technology and create a war battle system that could pretty much be a separate game all on its own if Konami wanted it.

Creative Assembly's Total War PC game series should be the style future war battles should be using to really give the player more control in ow the battle should be fought. Anyone who has seen the gameplay videos for their upcoming game Medieval 2: Total War knows just how massive such a war battle can be and how detailed. Licensing this engine and making a few tweaks where rune abilities could be used would make the war battles more fun. Just click this link to see the videos and people will see just how much potential using this game engine for the next Suikoden game's war battles.
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