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Opinion on Israel-Palestine war
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Sage

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have never really had an informed opinion on this topic. Everytime I see an article about a suicide bomber and then another one about the Israeli army retaliating, I just move on and read something else. It's always the same old thing and it makes me mad. Can't we all just get a bong--I mean get along?

But here's an interesting statement made by one of my professors: "Let's move everyone out, level the entire place, and then let them fight over it." I don't think that'll solve much. Someone will declare a mound of dirt Israel and another Palestine and it will all start over again.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FF6Sage wrote:
But here's an interesting statement made by one of my professors: "Let's move everyone out, level the entire place, and then let them fight over it." I don't think that'll solve much. Someone will declare a mound of dirt Israel and another Palestine and it will all start over again.


Well, it did come to mind that perhaps one way, if not a more effective, for the Israelis and Palestinians to get along is for them to focus on another enemy: One that is threatening the Holy Land and the genocide of their people. Who would take up that role, i'm not sure.

I thought of this before Suikoden III. Think about it. The Zexens and Grasslanders were common enemies. But they became allies after a third party, Harmonia, invaded the Grasslands. Maybe it's that third party that the conflict on the Israel-Palestine border needs. I do of course realize that more unnessesary blood will be shed. But, in a very cold-blooded manner, is not that big a deal, since there is too many innocents being killed already.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The only problem is that there are no third parties who are about to invade Israel. Even if Syria decides to invade, they have to go through the UN peace keepers, and the Palestinians would probably cheer them on. Also, if something like that happened, the USA would surely start boming the hell out of Syria.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The palistines should have attacked the U.S., not the Jews. We gave the Jews land that didn't belong to us. and why do we have to be so barbaric as to say that we should level the whole place and let them fight over it? I mean, what if the people of Murmanski( a russian town near to a nuclear fuel dump) was evacuated and moved to Luxembourg? The people of that nation would not allow it and most likely do something about it. Now, don't get me wrong, I think that the jews should have a place of their own, but I don't think that we should kick someone out of their country and replace them with someone else. we don't own that place.

also nothing against anyone jewish, but it's like Hitler said " The jews have copied our own language into their own" thats true, but only to a point. they write in a different language and have a different culture. its almost like they are a mix of all races.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zanmato Silvern, your facts are unfortunately incredibly wrong.

The US didn't give Israel to the Jewish people, it was the United Nations who made that decision with the strong encouragement of the United Kingdom. That area of land was a British protectroate before it became Israel. Jewish people already lived in that area before Israel was created, something like 1/3rd of the population. The initial idea in 1947 was to separate the area into three separate states. One controlled by Jews, another by Palestine, and a UN monitored area around Jerusalem. However, other arab nations protested this idea because none of them wanted a Jewish state. Most of the Palestinians were happy with the partition plan, but their opinions were not heard by their aggressive neighbors.

As for your comment on the Hebrew language and how Jews are a "mix of all races," I have no clue what you're talking about.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zanmato Silven wrote:
also nothing against anyone jewish, but it's like Hitler said " The jews have copied our own language into their own" thats true, but only to a point. they write in a different language and have a different culture. its almost like they are a mix of all races.


I know you may not have meant it, but quoting Hitler may make some people around here angry. Especially the Jew(s) on this board who tend to stay out of topics like this.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sorry, must have read the history book wrong
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I never liked Israel or Palestine because the two of them are such ignorant countries that think more about a land than their own people.

It really confuses me when I think about what this land will do to them after they lose all of their people in the process of getting it, and it seems to me that this land has become more of a cursed land than a holy one, and if they truly think that this land is the holy land in their books then why are they destroying it and making it a place full of blood.

If both countries are really thickheaded about this land then why don't they come to a mutual agreement that will leave both sides happy, I don't care which side is right and which one is wrong, what I really care is that they just end this meaningless massacre of innocent people from both sides.

I know that a mutual agreement is a dream that will never come true, but I just hope that they realize what they are doing right now isn't in their benefit at all, they believe that they are fighting to gain something great for themselves but they don't know that they are losing something greater everyday which is the number of their own people.

Looking at this war, the one thing that makes my heart grief the most is seeing innocent people die when the guilty ones are safe and sound looking cruelly on these events uncaring about what is happening or about their own people.

It makes me mad when I look at both of these countries because of the why they think they are solving this situation with, and it makes me more mad when they keep saying that they are killing innocent people for a good cause when they know that taking the lives of the innocent is the biggest sin ever.

The only thing I'm afraid of and sure about that this war will only end by the annihilation of both countries.

Starslasher wrote:
Well, it did come to mind that perhaps one way, if not a more effective, for the Israelis and Palestinians to get along is for them to focus on another enemy: One that is threatening the Holy Land and the genocide of their people. Who would take up that role, i'm not sure.


I also don't think that will ever happen, because no country will dare to put itself in the middle of this never ending war, though it might end if the aliens from Mars begin their invasion on Earth, a wishful thought from my side.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They didn't think of their own people? It's a statement full of contradiction, but I want to point one thing, at the time when both people were out from their land, it's like hell, everybody reject them. The Israeli was oppressed by the anti semitism in europe at that time, and when the palestinian were banished from their land, every Arab country (except Egypt if I'm not wrong) rejected them and placed them in immigrant camps. I didn't have to tell you how awful the condition in that camps. And they come to one point of thinking, they wouldn't be happy if they didn't have a land of their own. Both people think like that. Mutual agreement would be really nice, but there were too many bloodshed and of course it's not that easy for both side to forget about that. It will took years but I hope that someday it will be peace.

Everyone seems to think too negatively on the Suicide bombing. I'm not saying that I agree with it but why don't you think about it for a while? The Palestinian were thrown out of their land and there's no more Palestine, the world didn't recognized them. They should do something so they can show the world that the Palestines is still exist, and that they still have power of their own, so the suicide bombing come as a solution just because there's nothing more that they could do. They just wanted to show the world that "we are the people of Palestine, and we still exist"
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Schala wrote:
They didn't think of their own people? It's a statement full of contradiction


Well, Schala, I didn't say that these countries don't think about their own people, I just said that they think about a land more than they think about their people.

There is a difference between the two things because saying that they think about a land more than they think about their people don't make this statement full of contradiction like the other one you said because Palestine and Israel aren't really putting their people's welfare on the top of their list.

In fact, the two countries are the ones who are poisoning their people's minds with hatred and encouraging them to slaughter the other in the name of god or country.

I agree with you, it is sad seeing that everyone is rejecting the Palestinians and Israelis, but I don't believe that thing is good enough for going on a killing rampage on the innocent by either shooting them or bombing between them.

It's like you're saying that it is ok to kill someone that took something belongs to you, then where is the law and what it's purpose?

You said suicide bombings done by the Palestinians are ok because it is how they know to defend their country with, but you must know that there is a difference between bombing yourself between an army and bombing yourself between innocent civilians, and I know you said you don't agree with that act but you believe it is ok in there case and that's where you are wrong because there are a lot of other ways to defend their country with in the recent situation.

I know Palestinians are Muslims, and you are a Muslim person too who knows better than me about his religion, but do you think it is ok in Islam or in any other religion to kill the innocent; I know it is not and Islam condemns people who kills the innocent.

So, how is it ok for the Muslims to act like this or even for the Jewish to act like there is no law and it's ok to kill the innocent?

People might say killing is something normal in wars and something not wrong, and I agree with them but not in this one because the killings that is happening in this war isn't of armed men or men who are willing to die, the killings in this war are of innocent men, women, and children of both countries and is far away from the battle grounds.

They are innocent people dieing in mosques, streets, market places, and hospitals that are only packed with innocent civilians not armed men, which is why I say these aren't places to be using your killing weapons in because after you do it you will only get the sins of the innocent on your head.

If they really want to bomb themselves or shot others to feel good about it then why don't they do it in military crowded places?

In fact why they keep doing it when there are far more other things they can offer to their countries while they are alive.

I'm not here to defend any of these countries because I truly believe that their ways of fighting is wrong and isn't helping in making things better and as you have said killing each other will only result in increasing the enmity between them.

That is why I say the two countries don't care about their people as much as they care about that piece of land.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's my personal belief that no matter what anyone does, this conflict will only continue. Maybe the world should just fence in both coutries, let'em duke it out, and who ever wins, we'll leaveit at that.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Israeli's in a sense were forced out during the Crusades. Thus they did not leave by their own valition. Thus their wanting to return is reasonable. Frankly regardless of validity on either side it is my belief that they should live in peace. The whole reason the Israelis havent left the settlements yet is the same reason that the Palestineans are still attacking them. Extremeists on both side are refusing to accept any kind of compromise and some others are just unwilling to accept and of the others demands. The right of return for the Palestineans is not going to happen and the wall should be taken down. However I see reasoning on both points but as long as there are suicide attacks there will be retaliation and as long as both exist there wont be peace.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
You said suicide bombings done by the Palestinians are ok because it is how they know to defend their country with, but you must know that there is a difference between bombing yourself between an army and bombing yourself between innocent civilians, and I know you said you don't agree with that act but you believe it is ok in there case and that's where you are wrong because there are a lot of other ways to defend their country with in the recent situation.


What I wanted to point out is not bombing for defending the country but bombing to show the world that they're exist. And you're right, every killing would only bring another. But let me now take you to a case : the world started to recognized PLO as a new power when they started to do the suicide bombing. Why did they do that? it's because they didn't have any military power to fight the Israeli army and at that time diplomatic way is useless because the UN and the US really supported Israel (diplomatic way had been tried by the leader before Arafat). It only leaves them with one option, or at least it's what they're thinking, to do an attack to Israel by the Palestine civilians (intifadha), which is what the world called terrorism. Try to place yourself on the Palestine's way of thinking, and also it's better to fully know the fact on the conflict.The thing I wrote only shown very little of it. Karen Armstrong's books such as 'Holy War' and 'Battle of God' is my reccomendation.

It's allright to be idealist but the truth is sometime harsher. One can only achieve their idealism on a long run, and with struggle. People dying everyday, on mosque, on the street, everywhere. The military is in their barrack, killing people, but they too have a family of their own and they wanted to protect them too from their enemy, but the enemy sure have people they wanted to protect. That is war, there's no right or wrong in war, just death. It's human nature, even though I believe every religion prohibitted killing. The best thing to do right now is to be good and be nice to everyone around us, so at least thare's peace in our little community. If people do that, the small things first, I believe peace will be at hand.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Schala wrote:
Quote:
You said suicide bombings done by the Palestinians are ok because it is how they know to defend their country with, but you must know that there is a difference between bombing yourself between an army and bombing yourself between innocent civilians, and I know you said you don't agree with that act but you believe it is ok in there case and that's where you are wrong because there are a lot of other ways to defend their country with in the recent situation.


What I wanted to point out is not bombing for defending the country but bombing to show the world that they're exist. And you're right, every killing would only bring another. But let me now take you to a case : the world started to recognized PLO as a new power when they started to do the suicide bombing. Why did they do that? it's because they didn't have any military power to fight the Israeli army and at that time diplomatic way is useless because the UN and the US really supported Israel (diplomatic way had been tried by the leader before Arafat). It only leaves them with one option, or at least it's what they're thinking, to do an attack to Israel by the Palestine civilians (intifadha), which is what the world called terrorism. Try to place yourself on the Palestine's way of thinking, and also it's better to fully know the fact on the conflict.The thing I wrote only shown very little of it. Karen Armstrong's books such as 'Holy War' and 'Battle of God' is my reccomendation.

It's allright to be idealist but the truth is sometime harsher. One can only achieve their idealism on a long run, and with struggle. People dying everyday, on mosque, on the street, everywhere. The military is in their barrack, killing people, but they too have a family of their own and they wanted to protect them too from their enemy, but the enemy sure have people they wanted to protect. That is war, there's no right or wrong in war, just death. It's human nature, even though I believe every religion prohibitted killing. The best thing to do right now is to be good and be nice to everyone around us, so at least thare's peace in our little community. If people do that, the small things first, I believe peace will be at hand.
Personally I think suicide bombings are rediculous, and outright stupid. I mean, there was this one time when a boy had three or four pounds of c-4 strapped to his body andy he walked right into the crowd and blew himself up, just because he was 'defending his country'. Isn't that a little sad that they have to make little children do that? Also I'd like to also put something else down on the list. Remember when the u.s. marines were pinned down and couldn't fire back at the resistance because they were hiding behind civilians; they(they u.s. soldiers) couldn't do a thing except have to listen to the Iraqi's goad and taunt them. To me, that is pretty stupid.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Also I would have to say that we're in a world were life practically sucks. What do you expect? I think this world is in a sorry state.
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