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Lymsleia + Power = Badbadbad?
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Etenralmaiden




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Lymsleia + Power = Badbadbad? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hi so I had this topic on Gamefaqs but it was rather coldly welcomed...maybe it was a bit too controversial and maybe I didn't just formulate my ideas clearly. Anyway it's in there: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=929668&topic=2849 0313
Please to have a peek at it and let's discuss!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't think Lym's gonna be a corrupt or garbage queen.

1. She studies hard, yah? During your trip to the Senate, whether you ask Lym to study hard or skip off studying, she still goes to study.

2. Her support. Who cares if you're a kid? You have all the support you have! She's got the Prince, Miakis and Lyon. Add all the other dudes in there, and you've got a Queen whos got a good amount of support. Not to mention they've got Armes people haning around in there too. (I think Sharmista's enidng stated that she stayed in Sol-Falena, and being an assistant to Shula, he must be there as well.)

There's probably some more points I've missed, but I'll let someone else say that as I don't remember anything else related to Lym's future at the moment. :D
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Ujitsuna

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah Shula helps Falena-Armes ties after the war, so she can't exactly invade/get invaded by Armes anytime soon.
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Dragonstar13

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Etenralmaiden wrote:
Hi so I had this topic on Gamefaqs but it was rather coldly welcomed...maybe it was a bit too controversial and maybe I didn't just formulate my ideas clearly. Anyway it's in there: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=929668&topic= 28490313
Please to have a peek at it and let's discuss!

You make it sound like Lym is going to be doing this alone, when in fact she isn't. She has the support of the people, she has Haswer to give her advice, she has Miakis to point out her mistakes, she has the Prince to protect her.

IMO, I think you're assuming Lym is going to be a bad Queen because she acts like a spoiled brat in the beginning. Yes, she did act spoiled, but she does grow up quickly considering her situation.
Most girls her age would cry, and lock themselves in their room. Lym manages to hold her tears back, and was able to diverse a plan to see her brother. Yes, it did require soldiers dying for her, but if this plan worked, no other soldier would have to die fighting the Prince. When she was being held hostage in the end, she remained calm, and even pointed out the faults the Godwins were experiencing. Most girls her age would stay quiet. She was even able to call Gizel's bluff, when he put a sword against her throat. Although this may not show her beinging kind or considerate, but it does show she is not going to back down easily.

Now, you've pointed out that you think Lym is going to take the Sun Rune and try order people around. I doubt that will happen. The Sun Rune couldn't go on her anyway(at least not at that time, but I doubt she can bear it). Lym also wanted Godwin to keep the Sun rune when he stole it, since she thinks it's the reason for the war in the first place. So why would she want it, if in reality, she probably doesn't want the Sun Rune on her. The Queen felt the same way. She didn't want to bear it, but Lucretia advised for her to do so. So it doesn't make sense on why Lym would want it, when she has one of the strongest Queen's knight(Miakis) protecting her.
If Lym ever did get selfish, then Miakis or Hawser would most likely tell her to stop, and point out what's wrong with what she's doing. Miakis has always done that, why stop now? Hawser does the same thing. When Lym said she didn't want a big celebration for the sacred games, Haswer pointed out the importance of doing it right. So again, why would they stop? Just because Lym is Queen, I doubt they'll change their attitude towards her.
Further more, there are reps and other people who are going to help support her, and give her advice on what she should do. Notice when Lym does act selfish, someone corrects her, and she listens. This doesn't mean she has no backbone either. She was able to fight off Gizel. So she will only listen to advice which makes sense, and coming from some she trusts.

You've mentioned Lucretia being the real victory towards the Prince's battles. Yes that maybe true, however, that doesn't mean Felena is doomed, since Lucretia left. Leclar didn't have Lucretia advising everything, they survived. Beaver dam, saved because the Prince round up everyone to save it. The Dragon Calvery, Lucretia didn't do anything, but the Prince still managed to get their support. So not everything was done because Lucretia was able to make the plans. So Felena does have a chance, even without Lucretia. Plus, Lelei eventually returned, and my guess is Lucretia tutored Lelei and had her go back to Felena, in case something did happen.

The Prince never did want to be king, he refused to take Barrows offer to become one. All he did want, was for Lym to be safe and protect her. I doubt the Prince wants the pressure of becoming the King, and would prefer to take the job as a Queen's knight. So why become king, after doing everything within his power to rescue Lym, and refusing Barrows' offer? It doesn't make sense to me.
Haswer, same thing. She said several times she doesn't want to become Queen, she likes being the Oracle. Just because Hawser is older then Lym, doesn't mean she's qualifed to be a Queen. Plus, her glomping everything she finds 'cute', may bite her in the back one these days. What happens if she glomps King's son, and he takes offense to it?
Also, considering you're saying Lucretia is the brains behind the operations, and without her Felena is doomed, then it's not going to matter if the Prince or Haswer took the throne.

About Armes, unless Lym does something really impolite, I doubt they'll go to war any time soon. They have arranged for a treaty, and the King and Queen are going to Felena to discuss their relationship. So it'd be dumb to go to war shortly after this. As long as Lym is able to keep a good relationship with them, I don't see Armes wanting to go to war with them.

Lym knows how to be polite towards people. You see her being polite towards Euram and Gizel earlier, despite she doesn't care for either of them. She's friendly towards Shula, and wants to have a friendly relationship with all the cities. Lym asks for a rep from each city, despite knowing it's going to be hard for her to talk to the dwarves to agree on anything. She acknowledges they are a part of Felena, and is willing to let them have a say in what goes on in the country. So she really is thinking about the people, which every good Queen should do.

Uh, excuse my writing, I'm a bit half-asleep.
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Sophita

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Don't you think after seeing her mother changed by holding the rune, her parents brutally killed because of that rune, a close family friend having to leave the country forever because of that rune, and being held captive by the two men who conspired to kill her parents for several months while her brother waged a dangerous war against them for her, in which many people died, including her "husband", she might think twice about picking up the rune? I think Lymsleia has more reason than most queens to want to avoid ever using the sun rune.

You're painting her as a war monger, which she isn't at all. In fact, she's even more peaceful than even Arshtat was - she's in talks with Armes, even. Where do you see this lust for power? The only time Lym attempts to take the Sun Rune is when she wanted to burn the Godwins to a crisp - to punish them, not gain power for Falena. And yes, that's immature, but Lym is ten years old. Expecting her not to have the occasionally hissyfit is asking a bit too much.

And frankly, I don't know too many people who, if put in a similar situation, wouldn't want to avenge their parents.

Also: It is still a queendom as of Suikoden II, as it pops up in Lorelai, Killey, and Georg's investigations, and is mentioned in Lorelai's recruitment scene with Killey. It probably isn't mentioned much for two main reasons:

a) Suikoden V is made several years after Suikoden I-III, even if it takes place before them. Lym couldn't appear or get a mention in Suikoden I-III, because she'd never been created yet.

b) Suikoden I-III take place on the northern continent, which is far away from Falena. I don't think the Queendom is so concerned with the grasslands invading as they are with Armes doing so. They're seperated by an ocean, for crying out loud. Falena deals mainly in the Southern continent, and their influence in the north is limited - just the Island Nations. Just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - do the Island Nationst stop existing for Suikoden I (not mentioned), only to exist again for Suikoden 2 (mentioned), and then not exist again for suikoden 3?
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El Regrs




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sophita wrote:
Don't you think after seeing her mother changed by holding the rune


Just a question on a small point... does she actually see her mother change? I was always under the impression they were hiding it from Lymsleia. I remember after that spell in Stormfist, Arshtat asks you not to mention to to Lymsleia because "she's still too young to know about such things," or something like that. And if you approach Lymsleia the next day, she'll ask you what you're all hiding from her, and either answer will cause her to complain about being left out of the loop.
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Justice Johnny

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Dragonstar13 wrote:
The Sun Rune couldn't go on her anyway(at least not at that time, but I doubt she can bear it).

Yeah, she is not qualified to bear the rune yet. I'm not even sure if she will still go and bear the Dawn, Twilight, and the Sun Runes when she gets engaged. Even if she *does* bear the Sun Rune, the Dawn and Twilight Runes will stabilize it.

El Regrs wrote:
Sophita wrote:
Don't you think after seeing her mother changed by holding the rune


Just a question on a small point... does she actually see her mother change? I was always under the impression they were hiding it from Lymsleia.

They *were* hiding it from her, and she noticed them acting very strange, but if you choose the second option when she confronts you about it, she is aware that she is not ready to know about certain things because she is too young. Eventually she is going to find out anyway. And I doubt she's so reckless that she will take the Sun Rune when it's really absolutely unnecessary. Also, there's always Miakis, Haswar and Luserina there for guidance.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Highwind wrote:
Dragonstar13 wrote:
The Sun Rune couldn't go on her anyway(at least not at that time, but I doubt she can bear it).

Yeah, she is not qualified to bear the rune yet. I'm not even sure if she will still go and bear the Dawn, Twilight, and the Sun Runes when she gets engaged. Even if she *does* bear the Sun Rune, the Dawn and Twilight Runes will stabilize it.

El Regrs wrote:
Sophita wrote:
Don't you think after seeing her mother changed by holding the rune


Just a question on a small point... does she actually see her mother change? I was always under the impression they were hiding it from Lymsleia.

They *were* hiding it from her, and she noticed them acting very strange, but if you choose the second option when she confronts you about it, she is aware that she is not ready to know about certain things because she is too young. Eventually she is going to find out anyway. And I doubt she's so reckless that she will take the Sun Rune when it's really absolutely unnecessary. Also, there's always Miakis, Haswar and Luserina there for guidance.


I don't think the rune requires for the bearer to get married, I think it's more along the bloodline thing which is hinted at by the white hair. Afterall I don't think true runes are interested in martial status when they choose their bearers.
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Justice Johnny

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm not talking about marital status. The qualifications in bearing the Sun Rune is that a person must have held the Dawn and Twilight Runes beforehand. Arshtat was certainly able to hold both runes during her time. The Dawn pre-engagement, and the Twilight pre-marriage. In Lymsleia's case, she wasn't able to, because the Dawn Rune was stolen.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

sV takes place fifteen years before sI; this is why georg prime is in his fifties during sII (which takes place about six months after (if i remember correctly) the events in sI.

the rest holds up; the distance between the two continents makes events occurring an ocean away less important to nations not overtly interested in true runes; however, harmonia would have great interest, considering how much power the sun rune has. falena will definitely come up again, if not only as a side story in the final suikoden (if guesses of harmonia being the final place are accurate).
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Georg is 29 in Suikoden V, Suikoden I takes place six years after Suikoden V. Then Suikoden I takes place over three years somehow, then in three more years Suikoden II happens and we meet Georg again. So in Suikoden II Georg is either 41 or 42.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I have to disagree with the topic creator here...sure Lym is a bit immature, but she's of the age where that comes naturally. By the end of the game, she starts to come into her own anyway, so by the time she ages she'll have become a fully stable and competent Queen. As noted far more eloquently (and such) by everybody else, Lym has no possible reason to use the Sun Rune...it just doesn't make sense.

Besides, if she went out of control, she has some VERY strong people to hold her back. Realistically too, most countries have/had an "out" for such a time when a monarch cannot fulfill their duties responsibly. And the Prince or Hashwar[sp?]would make a perfect candidate for regency duties.

All in all, I don't think Lym would cause any great harm to Falena.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

El Regrs wrote:
Sophita wrote:
Don't you think after seeing her mother changed by holding the rune


Just a question on a small point... does she actually see her mother change?

This is why I wasn't sure if I should mention it or not, when discussing about the Sun Rune. I think it's possible Lym may not even seen the change in her. Arshtat only 'changed' when she was upset. Aside from maybe saying she doesn't want to get married, I don't see Arshtat showing this side to Lym.
<spoilers>

However, I'm pretty sure Lym was aware this is the reason why Arshtat died. She mentioned the rune being the cause of the war, which hints to me, she knows her mother died as a result of someone else wanting the Sun Rune.

<end spoilers>

Even if she didn't know, I'm betting Lym will eventually have to learn about the Sun Rune. The Sun Rune is their royal treasure, and it'd be unwise for her not to learn more about it. So I would assume the Rune keeper or Haswer will teach her about it, and she'll eventually learn how it bewitched Arshtat and the others. Or the Prince, or someone else, will tell her what happened when she's older, and ready to handle the news.
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Onix




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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hm.......I think she wouldn't be a bad queen. After all the things that happened, I think she wouldn't abuse the power she has. She studies hard.....(unlike me :D ). She's serious when it needs to be serious. I think she has a strong personality, she doesn't give up easily, as Marscal said, Lym is like Arshtat and Sialeeds. So maybe she'd be one of the best queens of Falena....this might be :off topic:

Arshtat was like a super uh....uncaring?? or too realistic? Especially the Sacred Games thing...Lym isn't used watching sword fighting and instead of Arshtat saying comforting words....she says the 100,000 soldiers thingy. Maybe it affected her....I think she's isn't even close to Arshtat....

BACK 2 TOPIC!!!!!!!! ^_^
Well I think she'd be a good Queen..
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

No, Queen Arshtat's actually a very sweet mother, as shown by her talk with the Prince two days before the engagement ceremony. And during that incident at the Sacred Games, she just made Lymsleia aware of her responsibility as a future Queen of the country.

And I don't believe that the Queen and the Princess aren't very close. Perhaps Queen Arshtat was avoiding too much contact with the Princess so that she wouldn't be seen by her daughter getting possessed by the Sun Rune. The event in Stormfist pretty much showed that they did not want Lymsleia finding out about it because she's too young to be burdened with it.

Eventually, the Princess will find out the whole truth about what happened to her mother and her experiences while holding the Sun Rune, and probably even the whole story behind Lordlake. Her knowledge of these events will at least make her be aware of the past and use it as some sort of a guide in making wiser decisions as the Queen of Falena.
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