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What are the Weakest aspects of each Suikoden?(key issues Only)
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: What are the Weakest aspects of each Suikoden?(key issues On Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is a pretty wide topic and I was aware that there maybe previous topics on this subject, I did a search for "weak" "worst" and some other words that may lead me to the question I'm trying to ask but couldn't really find a topic that had it(at least not one that opened after V was released few month ago)

I know there are topics that allowed people to post about everything they disliked in recent games, but I was wondering: if it all had to be narrowed down to less than 3 major issues per game going throughout the entire series' games, what parts of each game would emerge as key problems to the majority? I wasn't able to get into the series from the very start and I am often puzzled by how some fans can dislike II so much while I thought it was almost flawless; or just now, many are saying V is the best game of the series, but when compared to others does it's flaws insist it may be over hyped at this time still not too long after release?... Obviously no conclusive answer would be reached on which game is better but I think some important issues could be made more clear.

I'm not personally going to get into anything specific yet since there maybe a topic from long ago like this regarding the first 3 or 5 games, while there's already enough said at this point about V that they won't need to be all combined right now. But if not, some serious inputs on this subject would be appreciated. Thanks
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden 1 - Not enough options, only one rune per person and such, but that's expected of the first game of the series.

Suikoden 2 - Godawful translation. I can get around the bugs, but Luca's random burst of "I dont care about breeding" just ruined the moment.

Suikoden 3 - Lack of Viktor.
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

suikoden 1: you only get one rune slot.

suikoden 2: just a couple translations and name errors.

suikoden 3: like Yvl said lack of viktor :mrgreen:

suikoden 4: lack of character development and of course the sailing and how many random encounters you have.

suikoden tactics: can't think of any.

suikoden 5: can't say in here :P :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well let me see here there were a few things in the Suikoden series that I didn't quite like.

Suikoden: As mentioned above you only get one rune slot, that and you can't go to a lot of places like Rockland and Gregminister again

Suikoden II: Luca blight was stupid that was realy the only thing I had a problem with was that character. That and you couldn't use Jowy's Black Sword Rune more than a couple times in the game.

Suikoden III: I wouldn't really say lack of Viktor even though that is the first time in the series your without him. I would actually have to say I didn't really like having to choose a hero. The trinity site system was pretty good but once you chose the flame champion the stories of the other characters seemed to dwindle.

Suikoden IV: Well this one is probably obvious to most people who have played the game. It was rushed and didn't have very much character development in it at all. The magic just wasn't there.

Suikoden Tactics: Haven't played it yet.

Suikoden V: I can't say in the section of the forum and I haven't finished playing it yet anyway, which reminds me I need to start playing it again this weekend.
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden: I think the main problem I had here is that one rune slot thing everyone already said, and that some characters were pretty useless for everything. There's two cooks in the game, what's the deal with that? They're not even different...Oh well...

Suikoden III:I don't know, maybe the lack of control in the War Battles

Suikoden IV; The overall "thinness" of the game

Suikoden V: I can't think of anything right now, well, maybe the slow start.

Edit-Yeah...I have a very aweful attention span so I jumped to the next sentence without finishing thi first one. Thanks for pointing it out man :mrgreen:


Last edited by Kikito on Sun May 28, 2006 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kikito wrote:
Suikoden: I think the main problem I had here is that one rune slot thing everyone already said, and that some characters were


Kikito, you might want to go back and finish that last sentence. What were some characters?

Suikoden: The three biggest issues? Well, there's the "one rune only" thing, but that was really only bad looking in hindsight from the rest of the series. In and of the game itself, I would say that the single worst aspect was the translation and/or dialogue. In some instances, the dialogue was extremely choppy, and there were some lines that made you think "Huh? What does that mean?" Specifically, I'm talking about the references to Mathiu as "military surgeon." In addition, the game was extremely short, but that really wasn't a terrible flaw, just a minor shortcoming. Finally, I felt that some parts of the battle system were too detached. What does that mean? Take the rune pieces that you could embed in weapons. It was vague whether or not they actually did anything. Fortunately, Konami fixed this in Suikoden II, making the elemental add-on seperate from the main damage.

Suikoden II: First and foremost, the absolutely horrendous dialogue and translation. As a whole, it wasn't nearly as bad as the first Suikoden, but there were some icky spots. That conversation between Alex and Nanami immediately after the Sindar ruins dungeon is completely incoherent. And how many exclamation points are really necessary? I mean, two at the most should be enough to get the point across!!!!!!!! Another thing that's not so much a flaw as an oddity in the game is that series of poses that Koyu performs upon meeting Riou. So bizarre... I also find it annoying that you don't get the Blinking Mirror until you are significantly far into the game. If you're trying to get all the Stars of Destiny, and try to get them as soon as possible (as I always do), there is a lot of backtracking involved.

Suikoden III: The war battles were severly downgraded. Building up characters for the battles in the second half of the game is quite a chorse, and watching Chris use her Phoenix Rune on a Karayan Warrior with one HP left is nothing short of infuriating. But the single biggest flaw in this game is the incredible amount of backtracking you have to do, and the slow movement rates of all the characters. It's slightly better when you have Chris on the horse, but that is only applicable to a small portion of the game. And if Suikoden II took too long to get to the Blinking Mirror, this one is ridiculous. At least Suikoden II gave you Viki earlier in the game; in Suikoden III you don't get either until you've practically beaten the game. Oh yes, and the Luc chapter is somewhat boring if you managed to win all the battles against him and his posse in the main game.

Suikoden IV: The total and pervasive lack of depth. And the sailing. That god-awful sailing. It shouldn't take ten minutes, with random encounters every five seconds, to get from one island to the next. Also, the game had rather significant balance problems. Money was extremely scarce up until around Obel, and the boss in the Obel ruins could be difficult if you weren't outfitted with the best equipment or had spent a long time leveling up.

Suikoden Tactics: Everything was so detached. For half the game, you were in menus, and for the other half, you were fighting battles with graphics that were made to look more like an action game than a tactics one and poor camera angles and lighting. It was a good game, but it didn't have the Suikoden magic. To an extent, I felt the same way about Suikoden V, but I can't elaborate on that here, can I? :D
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

o.O did you actually SEE all the errors in S2 to say that it was worse off that Sui 1?
They forgot to translate part of it... beautiful, just beautiful!

But now that you mention it, the one rune slot was only bad in hindsight. With that out of the picture... I'd say the lack of personality of the main character, but that doesn't work either... So I'll say the actual difficulty of the game was pathetic. That soul eater was crazy, and for the main character of all the people to have something of that magnitude...
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For me I thought Suikoden 1's story was a bit lacking. Obviously, compared to other games it was great but as far as the series goes, story has evolved. It seemed rushed to me, and I didn't like the fact that you were given the ability to just forgive everybody who wronged you. Honestly, if I had been Tir, Millich would've lost his head before he got a chance to lisp out his defense.

The biggest weakness in Suikoden two had to be the dialogue, as mentioned above. Honestly though, it's hard to sit here and talk about what this game did wrong. Compared to the first game it was a step up. The wars were upgraded, the graphics, story, and characters personalities all got a major boost. If I had to complain about something besides the translation it would have to be the relative impossibility of recruiting some characters. Clive pissed me off in the first game, but that was nothing compared to Genshu.

The biggest weakness of the third game WAS the third game. The plot was weak, the characters had no depth, the movements were almost robotic, and the pair system for random encounters made me want to rip out my hair. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Suikoden 3 is the game with no middle, it has a beginning and an end.

The fourth game was overall bad but it did some things well. The movements were better than the third one but that alone can't make up for the horrible inclusion of the four person battle system, the sailing, the lack of character development, the horrible voice acting, and that nasty feeling you had when you knew that the game was over and you had just witnessed an abomination in a pretty package...god, that feeling was the worst.

Suikoden tactics was solid though. The gameplay was a bit wonky at certain points but overall it was a nice transition for the series. I can't think of anything it could've done better except that Katrina's damn AI made her run off to die every time I tried to save her.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For me:

Suikoden I: The graphics and the 1 rune slot are terrible aspects, especially when you played suikoden II first. Alsot the story was really short, and some the story wasnt worked out that well.

Suikoden II: My favorite, but it has some minor issues. For example after Highland devastated the City-States, having such a large army, I found it odd Highland actually consisted of only 1 city and 1 village. Shurely they could have added some citites to add for the realism. Also story wise, it would be much more impressive if there had also been a campaign to conquer the "Higland cities" with some plots there, but I guess the game would have turned out to be too long for that.

Suikoden III: The trinity system, although fun at first, really was factor which didnt make this game great. Each time you grew accustomed and familiar with the sotry of one protagonist and were at the thrilling moment, the game would switch to another protagonist, thus actually disrupting your excitement and losing its intensity. Also the lack of any real antagonist nation, despotic regime or political group made the story less interesting. It was just a vagabond group who had the cliche goal of world/continent destruction. Also, although the graphics are beautiful (after Suikoden IV the best among the Suikoden series) the camera system was very annoying, being 3d but not being able to change your camera position. And the map with fixed routes was a major set-back, resulting in the lack for any sense of adventure.

Suikoden IV: The lack of land was annoying, let alone the lack of major cities. Some movement and sight seeing on the islands would be welcome. The story layout lacked any thrill or intense plots. Suikoden IV is my least favorite among the entire series and I rather forget about this one.

Suikoden Tactics: Havent played it and dont plan to, aside Front Mission, I dont play any of the Tactics based games anymore. Its timeconsuming and you cant roam freely in a city which I find very annoying.

Suikoden V: After Suikoden II my favorite. Most things are well developed. Though I would have seen more extra's in the New Game+. Also I would loved to visit some of the southern neighbouring border cities. I dont want to talk much about it since it would become a spoiler.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden i: Only one Rune slot, and graphics. Although it is understandable, being the first game of the series.

Suikoden II: Translation. During a conversation that reveals how Chief Kianu was killed, Lucia refeered to someone as 'Alec and Gordeau". I think that Gordeau is a mistranslation, maybe it was supposed to be Gorudo.

Suioden III: MOVEMENT. This is why I will never replay the game. Youmove so horribly slow. Plus, I think that the pair system was the crappies fighting system in the whole of Suikoden.

Suikoden 4: That damn boat. It sucked, when you go to places the ship will sometimes steer itself away from your course (VERY ANNOYING), and the generic-ness of characters, like Gretchen.

Suikoden 5: Can't mention, can I?

Tactics: Characters. Lino's voice seemed poor, Kika dissapeared into the storyline as well.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I still think that Suikoden II is the best existing game and I have played it before every other episode of Suikoden so I compare everything to this game...

Suikoden I: Like almost everyone the only one rune slot rule made my cry. Okay most people didn't like it, but I missed something important. You couldn't that much customise your characters as I was used to. The second thing that was a little flaw is that the game is extreme easy. You always know where you have to go next. Of course that is no bad, but I disliked it. The last thing is that I didn't know that I have to defeat Teo with Pahn in order to get the good ending. I thought since there are dying people all the time why should he win, especially because I was defeated after one hit...

Suikoden II: The best game with a few flaws. I don't know about the English version, but the German version has untranslated passages (whole Gregminster was in Frensh, so it wasn't untranslated, but in the wrong language), monologes clearly spoken by the false person and repeated speaches as answers... As a side note: Genshu should have be a lot stronger since he needed to have such a strong party and weapon... but that's something personal.

Suikoden III: I don't like the graphic much, the trinity sight system wasn't much fun for me, because I couldn't really concentrate on one person, but the idea itself was cool. The battle system was something I couldn't stand and it hurt a lot of the game for me.

Suikoden IV: Not a really bad game... but a really bad Suikoden. The lack of personality of the character hurt my deepest feelings. It was as if they implanted Paris Hilton as character. You can't remember the background story of the Stars, huh? I can't even remember the name of these people without a background. The sailing was torture, because most of the time I had no valid idea where the next isle might be. I hated to have to fight with only four members in the party and that one of them had to be the hero (I mean this guy with the silly shorts was no suitable herofor me). If this would have been the first Suikoden I had ever played I probably wouldn't be a die hard fan.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden I: Mostly what others have been saying. One Rune slot, a good, but simple story. However, the greatest problem, and this goes for every Suikoden, was the gameplay. It's fun, yes, but it's nothing to write home about.

Suikoden II: Same gameplay troubles, but, other than that, it's almost flawless. The translation was somewhat better in my PAL version. Where Luca says "I don't care about breeding!" in Yvl's version, he says, "I don't care about the breeding of a sword, as long as it's sharp," or something along those lines. It's story was just so great, I cn look past most problems.

Suikoden III: Haven't played it. I've read most of the manga, and I see no problem. I'm seem to have been saved from the dire gameplay of it.

Suikoden IV: I am a vigilant defender of this game. Although, yes, the plot and gameplay was god-awful, it's opening scenes were so nice. I love the start of the game, but, I admit, it dips greatly from there. Most of the flaws in the game can be fixed in-game, (High encounter rate resolved by Champion's Rune and Viki.) As Eden said, a good game, but a poor Suikoden. I expected more, but was satisfied with what I got.

Suikoden Tactics: Overall, I hate this game. Not because it makes mistakes, but because I can't stand Tactics games. I mean, I fought so many battles where I was winning, and I was reaching the end, and then a stray attacker moves forward, hits Kyril with a Critical Hit, and empties his full HP bar, and I have to start all over again. So, mostly gameplay problems, but all SRPGs suffer from them.

Suikoden V: Haven't played it yet, but I look forward to when I can.
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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden I:Well i actually thought this game had quite good graphics for its time and all of that so the only bad thing i can find about it is the 1 rune slot which alot of us have said.Just one other thing though, i think the 108 stars of destiny bonus was not the best thing could have been.

Suikoden II:I have not actually played this game but from what i have heard all the bad things i can say about it is the minor translation errors, otherwise i hear the game is most probably flawless.

Suikoden III:I think ( i mean my opinion) that this game was the best with all of its aspects, the trinity system was fun, the party system, and all the true runes as well as the 108 star bonus was amazing but to be more on topic i cant think of any bad aspects of this game apart from the movement (said by arch_wooohh, ) but otherwise great game in my opinion.

Suikoden IV: I don't think this was as bad a game as people say it is, but its storyline was a bit awful, i have to agree with Vertius, here and say that this game actually had a really nice beggining to it but it went downhill from there. ( but i like the rune 8-) )

Suikoden Tactics: Ah tactics, well i have played and finished this game personally and i think it was overall good but the bad point was when u are doing so well and then suddenly someone has a critical hit to Kyril and thats it, bang your dead.

Suikoden V:Can't say, would if i could 8-) .
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden 1: Most of the characters recruited were pretty much random people who have no real reason for being there. This causes the plot to be rather shallow.

Suikoden 2: Stats were pretty much irrelevant to the strategy battles and luck at times seemed to be the sole factor between winning and losing.

Suikoden 3: Pair system in battle greatly limited party options and rendered fire magic ultimately useless.

Suikoden 4: The plot was unfinished. What felt like halfway was actually the end with no real elaboration.

Suikoden 5: (I only mention because it is spoiler free) Early in the game, the heavy storyline based quests often give little direction to where to go or what to do.
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suikoden I: Please don't stick two Short range attackers in my final party. >.< So many usable characters, and so many of them turned in almost untenable choices because Viktor and Flik -had- to be there. On that subject, don't permanantly graft a subpar Rune to one of the characters you have to use at the end.

Suikoden 2: Translation, already mentioned. I hated trying to get the squirrels, without so much as feedback to tell me if I was in the right general ballpark (never got the last one!), and though I really liked the extra endings and possible story events, I wish there was one that allowed the Hero to get past the fact that Nanami 'died'; maybe going off with the gypsies, for instance.

Suikoden 3: Bad, bad map system. Unlike many people, I was fine with the battle system; just a matter of making sure that the characters had enough movement to 'dodge' friendly fire, and timing spells carefully.

Suikoden 4: The boat. The freakin' boat. I was wishing for Suikoden 3's map system! Some good build up at the beginning...and then a plot that seemed to go nowhere, with lots of bland supporting characters. Needed more Grahm Cray.

Suikoden 5: (Spoilerfree) Starts slow, and I'll echo the 'aimless' problem from above. I also disliked the restrictions on the final party...which, if I recall correctly, were the first such restrictions since the first game!
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