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Le Buque
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Beecham

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why did you change my spelling in your quote? Please do not misquote me unless you specifically say that you're doing so and why. It's not CARNE, it's CARNA. The word is also "it's" not "its." Its is possession; it's is a contraction for "it is." I really don't know why anyone would feel the need to change this when quoting me.

And if you play the game, you'll see that there apparently is a difference between Clan and Tribe. Clans are major organizations of Grasslanders. They're the Six Clans. It wasn't the Seven Clans, fifty years ago; even then, they were the Six Clans. Clearly, the Carna were of less importance than a Clan, which is probably why they were left to Harmonia's mercies. As such, yes, the difference between Clan and Tribe is rather important indeed.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Haru: This is much delayed but I kind of came to the same conclusion and I don't know why the spelling was off and for this I apologize. Your previous post seems to be completely correct in its distinctions drawn between clan and tribes of Grasslands. I thought you meant in reference to the fact that Grasslands had clans and Nameless lands had tribes or something. It was a while ago so my memory is waning a bit.

Carna is completely right and is why this is so late. I missed this earlier so thats why the delay. I find it now because I realized my mistake while replaying suiko3. Carna was completely right and I guess my mind filled in the blank with the fact that those giant bugs(the Mantors) look like meat eaters which is where carne comes from(Latin roots I believe unless it was Greek first but either way it means meat like carnivore and carnival<meat was primarily served in the early days of carnivals>).

Lastly I'm slightly offended by your insults of my knowledge of grammar. Of course I know the difference between it is and its. Its grouped in my mind like They're, there, and their. Homonyms. I'm not a child and I don't really take your jest as very funny. Sorry if I sacrificed grammar in my haste. It seems to me that you understood the thought I was attempting to convey (which is the point of having a mutually understood language anyways) and thus it doesn't really matter if my grammar is slightly off. Sorry but the feeling I got from your thoughts on my grammar came off more as an attempt to disvalidate my thoughts which is what really irks me.

Sorry if that last part came off a bit harsh but I want to you to know that I really respect you it's just that when anyone makes fun of my grammar I get mad because grammar is such a stupid concept. As long as thought is conveyed the means by which it is done doesn't matter. I could go into it more but I've been redundent enough already.
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Hugo

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I might be mistaken , but didn't Sana tell Franz that the reason that Lu Buque was still occupied by Harmonia even after the First Fire Bringer War - where the Grasslands were liberated from Harmonian rule - was because the people of Lu Buque never joined the first Flame Champion in the fight against Harmonia . This might have been bacause they were the closest to Harmonia and would have been the first to get it when Harmonia retaliated .

Apparently the truce - I think it was for fifty years - stated that Lu Buque be part of Harmonia . This is all vague in my memory though . Has anyone played Suikoden 3 particularly recently and can shed some light on this . I don't believe that Caleria was part of the Grasslands but it was very close to Lu Buque and was a good place to base the Southern Frontier Defense Force .
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Le Buque was basically forgotten about by Grasslands. I really doubt they really influenced the battles at all. For all we know, Le Buque were a peaceful lot and didn't train Mantors to become an uber cavalry for any military force. For all we know they would rather have just gone along with Harmonia after the threats and what not, than to loose lives of their people.

I for one am a dreamer and a hopeless romantic and would be elated to see Le Buque return to the Grasslands as the Carna Tribe and soon the Carna Clan. That would be so good. Perhaps they could become the 6th tribe seeing as how Safir is so gone. Who knows?
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Suikofreak

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wouldn't Harmonia continue their oppression of Le Buque because they won the land in the 1st Fire Bringer War. And also Le Buque is a pretty good source of slaves for Hissuak.

Oh and the 1st war was about 50 years before the 2nd
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes, presumably the game leaves us to believe that Le Buque is still Harmonian. Their heart is still Grassland though, generally speaking.

No, about 150 years.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You'd swear there wasn't a Suikoden website with a timeline here or something.

425 - End of First Fire Bringer War.
475 - Start of Second Fire Bringer War.
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Seriously? I could have sworn there was a 150 year peace agreement. In retrospect, you're completely right now that I think about it. Wyatt was, what, 80ish in 3 as Jimba, so there's no way it would have been 150. Thanks for that Layfield.

Is there any development in the Suikoden 3 Manga as far Le Buque returning to their Grassland fold? I wasn't aware of any and if I remember correctly Franz's ending mentioned something about working for 2nd Class Citizenry or something.
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Blazing Camp

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I remeber in Franz's ending saying that he went to Crystal Valley to advocate 2nd-class citzenship to Le Buque or something along those lines.

Speaking of 2nd class citzenship, how does one person or a group of people do to gain 2nd class citzenship? If Le Buque trained mantors and helped with Harmonia in conflicts. then why were they still considered 3rd class citzens, even after they helped invade Grassland?
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Kikito

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:

Speaking of 2nd class citzenship, how does one person or a group of people do to gain 2nd class citzenship? If Le Buque trained mantors and helped with Harmonia in conflicts. then why were they still considered 3rd class citzens, even after they helped invade Grassland?


If you're reffering to the fact that Luc(then as the masked bishop) offered them 2nd class citizenship as a reward for helping with the invasion, then the answer is that he really didn't mean it. He just tricked them into participating in the invasion, much like he manipulated the other events in the game.

Besides, Luc's plan involved the destruction of all Grasslands with the destruction of his True Wind Rune. This said, he probably didn't care about what happened to the people of Le Buque.

Besides, to Harmonia, the people of Le Buque are nothing more than slaves from a conquered nation. Why would they want to rid themselves of free labor by giving them 2nd class status?

Hope that helped.
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John Layfield

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kikito is basically right. Generally, if you're not given 2nd Class status already, you're never going to get it. It'll just be used as a reward dangling just out of reach to ensure continued cooperation from 3rd Class regions.
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