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School: the artificially-created prison that society created.

 
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Arcana

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: School: the artificially-created prison that society created Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Why Nerds are Unpopular by Paul Graham (February 2003).

Extremely insightful article about the purpose that school plays in society today. Despite the topic title, it's not really about why nerds are unpopular; that specific aspect is a symptom of the social structure that schools create.

The main ideas presented include the concept that school shares common attributes with that of a prison, and is a place where adults send kids to get them out of their hair. It ends up being an unrealistic simulation of what life is not like, which can cause torment for those who don't adjust. Unfortunately, the fact that school is artificial means that social skills that people learn in school are not applicable to the real world.

It's long, but is highly recommended reading. I don't remember if I posted this here before; I might have. But even if I have, it's worth reading again.
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Nimble Jack

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Social skills learned anywhere can be helpful even if they aren't applicable. At the very least you know that something won't work and that isn't always ineffective. Thomas Edison tried to invent a filament for the incandecent light bulb two hundred times before he finally succeded, and when questioned about it he said that he hadn't failed he had just discovered two hundred things that wouldn't work for the light bulb. (that's not a direct quote).
Intellegence has an isolating effect, in so much as I have found, not because people will envy you, but because they simply have less in common and less common interests. This is why being on the soccer team assisted the writer of the article in becoming "popular", because he had a common interest with the other players on the team. Sadly, I don't really have the time to read all of the article to compose a complete rebutal. I will, however address something you said in the post.
Quote:

school shares common attributes with that of a prison, and is a place where adults send kids to get them out of their hair

I tend to dissagree with this. Because it is in the best interest for children to get a good education these days. If a parent had any cares for their child, or if they wanted their child to have a better life than they have, then they would send them to school. To support this, many recent studies have shown that high school drop outs will make an average income that is above the poverty line, but below the amount of money necesary to meet the standard of living. That really isn't a good place to fall economically. This is all aside from the fact that parents (in the US I don't know one way or the other for other countries) are legally required to send their children to school.
The aritcle seems to be well written, I just critic that it was slightly too narrowed about how popularity works. Personally, I don't think that popularity has any really workable system, because if it did then everyone could have to potential to be popular, then since everyone would be equal, no one would really be popular.
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Eden

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We like what's like us. That's the easy rule after that many systems of popularity works. I think the reason why good athletics are more admired than intelligent people lies in the imagination of the other people. It is far easier to imagine being good in any sports, than imagine being smart and knowing about some curious historical fact and makinh conclusions out of mere air. Another thing is, that sportsmen are often wellknown. Other schools know your best soccer player and sometimes they are mentioned in your local press. But the smart people aren't recognised in the society as often as the the basketball or soccer player.

So this matches with the assumption, that social skills learned in school are more or less useless in the "real world".
Another thing, that has prison and school in common, is a own, elitist language. In school you use word and phrases you wouldn't let your parents hear. Like in prison you will be told where to go and what to do. To be adapted to the rules given by the authority will be rewarded.

But the thing with prison is, that being in it, is suppossed to be the one thing, that should put the prisoner back on the line, but in school this is different. You aren'T suppossed to learn your lesson just by being in school, but by teaching and giving real lessons.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I personally think that boarding schools are more like prisons. I don't study in one, thats probably why I felt this way.

I believe EQ is more important than IQ. In High Schools, Colleges, and Us, both are sorta emphasized. Projects are often and we learn inter-relating skills. But in lower educational level, our maturity level is lower as we are younger, and thus it is a big obstacle to learn society skills. However schools are not prisons, schools prepare people for society, if you worked hard enough in school you'll be good enough to face the society. But very often, once you come out of prison, you get ostracized by society. You may gain your freedom, but its difficult to regain your life.

Well I went miles but can't find that book in local stores. Maybe I'll go to the big one across the road....LOL
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Tokuro

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Man in the world you find A LOT of jealous fools...saying for myself
I participated in TKD competitions for school for discount and had so much people that hate me
Have you heard about the "myth of the cave" of Platoon? The same thing here man. A lot of person don't have the will to carry on with their lives and go after they want and then start to look at others life. The most popular/funny guys just never messed with me because the first who did it got the nose broken (harsh but truth) but as for the nerds it is just a matter to defend and stand for your believes and ways of be (of course that for one that makes martial arts since child is much easier to say those kinds of things)
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Timbo

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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: School: the artificially-created prison that society cre Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Arcana wrote:

The main ideas presented include the concept that school shares common attributes with that of a prison, and is a place where adults send kids to get them out of their hair. It ends up being an unrealistic simulation of what life is not like, which can cause torment for those who don't adjust. Unfortunately, the fact that school is artificial means that social skills that people learn in school are not applicable to the real world.


I disagree that School established an unrealistic simulation of life as this implies that there is som aort of 'real world' out there adn that school isn't 'real'. I am a living thing and I went to school, therefore school as a part of my life.

Also,on the idea that school establishes social skills that are not applicable to the 'real world', I think this is absaurd as well. Necessary social skills are estblished by the way a society lives. If everyone in a society went to school, then school becomes a common connection of those members of society, making the social skills learned in school helpful, s all members of the society will have them and sharing these social skills will help you interact with other members of said society.
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Whee, here I come to throw a wrench into the whole discussion! Because I'm special like that!

I have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. Though I have already been able to almost completely erraticate the symptoms to the point where it seems like an entiresly different disorder, I know what it is like to have the syndrome. I can barely even begin to explain the clusterf*ck that which is AS, but the basics of the mental aspects are:

- We're ridiculously smart and observant, to the point that there have been some of us that actually know everything.
- We lack social skills, but it can be learned the same way you people learn facts and information.
- We are practically physically incapable oflying, depending on the severity, which causes us to be blunt, and very opinionated
- We tend to exaggerate details to gain attention.
- We tend to have ADHD like symptoms as well
- We find an idea to latch onto, and tend to never let go, causing us to be obsessive.
- The disorder is hereditary, probably... those things are always hard to prove.

The main facts about this to be aware of are that we are intelligent but lack social skills. There have been ALOT of misdiagnoses regarding this syndrome over the past... eternity or so. Einstein, for example, is thought to have had Aspergers. Many people were either diagnosed as having ADHD, or just being lazy crazy and stupid, and until about 10 years ago, it wasn't even officially recognized as a disorder. It is still highly unrecognized by the public.

Here's where it applies to the article though: Having observed a majority of the "nerdy" population at my school for the past 12 years, I would have to say that 90% of them actually have the same disorder. The other 7% are the kind of people who are in every freaking school club they can fit into their schedule and study for the rest of the time they are awake... leading me to believe they are indeed idiots after all, despite their high grades, and the rest just dont know what the hell they are doing and probably do apply to this article.

Anyway, because of our inability to adjust and poor social skills, we are easy targets for those who feel inadequete about themselves. THAT is where the bully-nerd relationship began.

Quote:
Even for someone in the eightieth percentile (assuming, as everyone seemed to then, that intelligence is a scalar), who wouldn't drop thirty points in exchange for being loved and admired by everyone?


99th percentile, motherb*tches!!!! And still admired by half the school! I was one of those who figured out how to be more popular. Tis called humor, it is.

Oh, and as a side note, I destest society and if I could, I would destroy it. I even know how, but it requires too much effort. I also hate american schooling, only because it is so damn filled with bereaucracy and hypocrisy that I sickens me.
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