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Editorial: A Case for Salome Haras
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Futch

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about one character?

Of course, I think that the analysis of someone who can actually read Suikoden manga, along with japanese suikoden sites can get a better perspective of the charcater.
But the more important thing is that is easy to read.

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

I liked the way it`s written, I don`t think dislike anything in particular, wish articles would came out everyday!

3. Did the article change your perception of Salome? Why/why not?[/quote]

Yes it did, some of the thongs you mentioned such as he is the first strategist to actully smash enemies to bit literally, was known to me but others not. For example that he is not corrupted by the silverbergs. :D

PS:Sorry for posting so lat, not much people seemed to actually have read your article... and i thought you deserved more credit!!
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Starslasher

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about one character?

oh yes, this was a good article. I would definately like to see more of these "case studies" about more characters. Like Watari, Ayame and Mike. I would love to know more on Edge!




2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

Well, not to be picky, but you described Leo as "dumb". i do not think that he is that typical hotheaded, dumb powerhouse. He does show some sign of intelligence. More than or Hallec anyways! He is polite, but not relative to Percival or Salome.

I do think that there were some spoilers that some newcomers to the Suikoden III game would have not liked to know about yet. One being about the connection he has with Geddoe. yes it was a good point, but maybe some newcomers hasn't got that far.




3. Did the article change your perception of Salome? Why/why not?

This article did not change my opinion of Salome Harras. Why? Because I liked him anyways! Personality-wise, Salome was polite, calm collective. In battle, he was able to do some above average damage and heal when necessary. Unfortuantely, he has the weakest defense out of the six Zexen Knights. But who cares man! Salome is cool!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Excellent article.
Ever since I first played the game, I enjoyed Salome as a character. He's a damn good priest/magic user, a capable stratigiest/politician, and definately one of the most interesting characters in Suikoden III.

It's about time that someone took up for the guy, bad haircut and all.
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Tokuro

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Salome is a really cool guy. One thing I always hated in suikoden was why the strategists never risks their own necks (OK Shu made one exception ) and have the morale to command soldiers.

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about one character?
Hell yeah, specially about the opossite side (Seed and Culgan are the coolest guys, Sarah and Troy are also interesting)

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?
I really liked up everthing

3. Did the article change your perception of Salome? Why/why not?
It really have. Before that I just looked at Salome and said something like "lame" or "fool" even tough respecting his loyalt side. But now he is for me in the same position of Sassarai (come on can a mage/priest be cooler?)
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Yvl

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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I already knew all of that.

1. Do you like to see more articles like this that talks about one character?

Yes, but this article seemed to bash Caesar (who is one of my favorite characters) as much as it praised him.

2. What did you like/dislike about the article?

As I just said, there was too much bashing of Caesar in the article to raise everyone's opinion of Salome. In fact, it was mostly restating the facts and putting them in favor of him.

3. Did the article change your perception of Salome? Why/why not?

No, I really knew all of that already. I dont think there was enough information for an article, really.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What sort of iformation do you think is necessary for an article then? I rather have constructive criticism rather than somebody just saying, "it's not enough," because it doesn't help at all.
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Rainrir

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hmmm..I must say that the game did not really give Caesar the chance to perform any real tactics or plotting while giving Salome quite alot of resources to play around with.


Firstly, Salome has a clearer picture of the situation in the Grasslands and Zexen than Caesar.

Salome is a native of the immediate area....and is familar with the what-I-call local political, cultural and trivial details that the foreigner Caesar probably don't. Your point about the fact that Salome WAITED before assisting the Grassies is true...

1) The Grasslands will be too haughty to ask for help aka the collective stupidity of the Grasslands leaders

2) The historical baggage is too much for the two fractions to reconcil that easily...until either side is desperate.

3) Early assistance without securing the agreement of the Grassies might and probably will make the Grasslanders confused over the intent of the Zexens. If the Grasslanders misunderstood the intent of the Zexens (which can happen due too all the mistrust), they might be force to fight the Harmonians AND the confused Grasslanders at once.

However, the Foreign-born Caesar wouldn't know this...or at least he wouldn't get that good a grasp on the character of the Grassland Leaders/People and these facts, while appearing very obvious to the native Salome, might NOT appear that obvious to the traveller Caesar. Caesar even complained about how hardheaded the Grasslanders where when he proposed to ally with the Zexens...He, like Salome, realised the Grasslanders are hopeless without the help of the Zexen but failed to realised that the alliance is not possible until the Grasslanders have their nose blooded first.

Note that all the GOOD strategist in the Suikoden world function in an environment which they are FAMILIAR with.
-Mathiu in Toran
-Shu in Dunan
-Eleanor (somewhat) in the Island Nations
-HER in Falaena and she probably had 1-2 years of observation time to work with.
-Caesar is playing with only a few months..maybe weeks of observation to work with
-Salome has YEARS of experience in that area.

Caesar does NOT understand the cultural dynamic between the Grasslands and ZEXEN as well as Salome...and you cannot really blame him for that.

Secondly, Salome is in pretty firm position of power and trust in the force he is leading while Caesar isn't

Yes. This is one LARGE edge that Salome has over Caesar. Salome is the Vice-Captain of the whole Zexen Knight Brigade, he only needs to answer to his Captain. He is in complete control over when and how the Zexen knights will fight. How did he achieve this? Because he is in the Zexen Knights for many many years and ,of course, his abilities are proven to the Brigade. He is also completely trusted by Chris and the other knights mostly due to his ability, integrty and their familarity with him.

Compare this to the foreign-born, new-guy-on-the-block Caesar who also happens to be a little too young to be in a position of such great responsibility. Caesar does not have any real power in the Grasslands, he cannot command any one to fight if the Grassland leaders do not give him the nod. He is answerable to not only Hugo, but the individual leaders of the various clans that he is leading.
He does not have the trust of these leaders because he does not have the chance to prove himself AT ALL by the time he took over and to the leaders are as familar to him as they are familiar with the Queeen of Falaena. His ability and integity is in suspect..he cannot have as much command as Salome has. The only thing he has is the Silverberg name...which is what made the leaders at least listen (but not trust) him.

Again, lets look at the strategist's in other Suikoden Armies and their position of power and trust:

-Mathiu is VERY powerful and trusted..partially because he was practically a household name and actually won a few battles with Tir's early army.

-Shu practically DEMANDS complete trust and power to him before he joins and Riou's army gave it to him. Especially after they beat Luca and Solon.

-Eleanor abilities(or lackthereof) are trusted by Lino and Kika....which pretty much made up the whole leadership level when Eleanor just joined she also proved herself...somewhere...

-HER in Falaena is practically a household name. Your best admiral and pretty much all your other general trusts her. She has proven herself in a conflict preceding yours and prove herself over several other battles.

-Caesar only had the Silverberg name, and he took over when the odds are heavily stacked against him in a FOREIGN environment which noone really knows him.

-Salome is the Vice-commander of the Zexen Knights and just successfully lead his knights in an military coup to root out traitors within Zexen. Every Knight there trust him more then anyone.

About Loyalty.

I will not go on about how Salome is loyal...you got that covered.

However, I believe Caesar is loyal too. He is young and probably idealistic but he did pledge himself to Hugo...and no matter how difficult the battle was going for the Grasslands (before the Zexens got involved) he never abandoned Hugo when he needs him. A lesser MAN in Caesar's shoes would had melted like summer snow...but the BOY Caesar did not. I believe that Caesar still believes in the age-old creed that strategist are to be absolutely loyal to those they serve. At least, he beats Albert and the Woman (even if her intent was good) in loyalty to their masters.

We cannot be blinded by how dedicated and loyal the OTHER Suikoden strategiest are and neglect that in the real world (suikoden or not) strategists DO betray their leaders when the going gets tough OR they can potentially gain from their leader's destruction.

About the Claim that Caesar can only do Retreat and get Reinforcements

You said that Caesar's total strategy was only Run AWAY and get reinforcements....I think you rate Caesar too harshly on that one. He took over a Grasslands Army under Flame Champion Hugo(following the official storyline) who is badly outclassed by the Harmonian Army. Lets ignore the fact that Harmonia has a bigger army first..

The Grasslands has:
-Light Cavalry in the form of the Karayans,
-Heavy Infantry in the form of the Lizards,
-Light Infantry in the form of Karayans and Ducks.
-Archers in the form of the Alma Kinan Girls.

The Harmonians have:
-an equilavalent of everything the Grasslands have (probably except light infantry and cavalry).
-Heavy Cavalry (which basically beats almost anything that the Grasslanders can throw at them.)
-The Bug Warriors from Le Beque

The Heavy Cavalry will MOW the Karayan and Lizard Infantry/Cavalry down easily. The Bugs from Le Beque offer overwhelming firepower against the Grasslanders from the sky. Not to mention that this is a direct confrontation-type of battle...which the lightly armed Grasslanders are not suited to fight (they should be more adapt at raiding and hit-and-run tactics thanks to their mobility)

Combine this with the fact that the Harmionians have a bigger army and you have a recipe for disaster. Caesar cannot do anything about the inferiority of his troops, he took over too late and there is no changing of how the Grasslanders fight..its their CULTURE. Under such overwhelming disadvantage all he could do was to retreat and buy time for the Zexen's eventual help. In a way he predicated CORRECTLY that the Zexens will help the Grassland against Harmonia.

Lets face it when you have a numerically inferor and wrongly utilised force you cannot be too innovative with you strategy. I believed Caesar chose the best strategy for the situation he was in at that time.
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