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The island nations federation
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Destiny's Warrior

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I was hoping to hear more from the Island Nations in Suikoden V. Not as in traveling and such, just about how they picked up from the "Eradication" of the Rune Cannons. But, It seems *Possible Spoiler* The Runes still linger around in the place, like in a black market almost, as we hear from a line of dialouge from Yhar or Nelis I think. *Spoiler End*

I though Bernadette resembled Lazlo in a way... I'm not trying to be some fanatic Suikoden family tree guy, but that's my oppinion.
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Tenkai

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, speaking about Island Nation and Lazlo, I wonder...
If Lazlo has the Punishment Rune, he should be ageless.
So it seems that he's still around in Suikoden V's times.

And now I remember, in Suikoden Tactics, Kika says that she heard that Lino wants Lazlo to be his heir (a in game conversation between Lazlo and Kika).
Lazlo is not really okay with the idea, but no one can say if he actually refused .

Lazlo may be the King of The Island Nations since this day...just as Hikusaak for Harmonia. What do you think? Quite possible no?
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just to clarify. If Lazlo were to Succeed Lino En Kuldes he would be King of Obel. He would still be an option for leader of the Federation but it's not specific in game that Lazlo would become new leader of the Island Nations. TIN would probably beg him to be but I doubt he would do it and decide to remain in Obel, fighting for peace as the King there. O well just to clarify, if Lazlo were to succeed he wouldn't neccesarily lead the Island Nations as a whole, just become King of Obel.
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Aesa

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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And thus a member but not the leader of the INF. Therefore he would not be as widely known except to the other members. Another option is that after a while and Lino died (this is presuming he became King of Obel) he requested that any mention of his usage of the TRoP be taken out of the INF records and hid the rune (under a glove?) until such time as it would be needed again.
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Kanaria, Most Intelligent Rozen Maiden


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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bernadette more than likely holds some relation to the Lazlo. Possibly Flare married and from there the En Kuldes name was lost. I was hoping that Lazlo would be mentioned, but I guess speculation is more fun.

Also I'm pretty sure The Holy Kingdom still believes the Federation has rune cannon shells. If they can fool islanders then I'm sure a nation that far north could be fooled... but then again I shouldn't under estimate the kingdoms intelligence gathering... not to mention NPCs with loose lips telling everyone they really don't have rune cannons.
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mumbay

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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay about nations being afraid of the sun rune, saying that they don't know it's power. it is true Sincewhen the attack on Sol Falena Royal Palace the Assasins say they didn't know it could do that or something along those lines

And Also I think we can also assume that they are afraid since all Pirates are afraid of the Lino En Kuldes but in Suikoden IV Pirates attacked when ever they wanted Such as Razaril
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Rainrir

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Something strikes me as odd though...The Island Nations outlawed the use of Rune Cannons but are sending their soldiers to round up loose rune shells. Could it be that the Island Nations STILL have the capability to USE rune cannons but lost the ability to MAKE shells?

I do not doubt Harmonia's ability to gather intelligence, their agents have a special ability to show out as stars of destinies(heh heh). Seriously though, I believe HVG's infiltration and esiponage capability should be right up there, and they most likely have some what accurate infomation about a nation's capabilities. Harmonia think INF (Island Nations Federation) as a threat because they probably KNOW at least 70% the truth about their capabilities.

I mean even a normal salior from INF knows the cannons are a bluff...I do not believe that Harmonia will NOT know that if it IS TRUE. I believe Harmonia, knows that the rune cannons-are-a-bluff story is NOT TRUE and INF still retain the ability to AT LEAST fire SOME rune cannons. This could be the reason why Harmonia considers INF a THREAT. Seriously, they only thing that INF has over Harmonia is Rune Cannons, a superior (but likely much smaller) Navy and INF's messy geography(which INF will use to their advantage with all the hidden islands and caves but only in the event of an invasion) in THAT ORDER. Rune Cannons are the only factor that can be used against Harmonia BOTH OFFENSIVELY and DEFENSIVELY.

In this case I will suggest that somewhere on INF (maybe on deserted Island? maybe on that turtle rock island heh) is a large cache of Rune cannon shells that can prolly blow the shit out of any invaders.
Howvere the reason why they never use it for expansionist reasons (other than good govnerance) is that rune shells are REALLY rare and the technology to make them is lost. Which is why INF thinks they can only be used for defensive purposes and send their soldiers to gather rune shells to BUILD up their cache. Think of it as insurance...so to speak...



Basically I THINK INF still have Rune Cannon capabilites...just limited such that they can only be used for defence.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You know, I can't tell if this is a work of great satire or if you just haven't researched the topic before writing about it.
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Rainrir

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Admittedly I didn't really complete Rhaspodia...but I am happy to learn what I said wrong. All here to learn right? Right? :oops:

It is Satire if you think I know what happened and Ignorance if you think I don't know what happened. Or maybe its a cheap way to rack up word + post counts.

Either way I lose heh heh.
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Ninjar

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, at least you tried. It is always better to be doing.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Rainrir wrote:
Admittedly I didn't really complete Rhaspodia...but I am happy to learn what I said wrong. All here to learn right? Right? :oops:

Well, Suikoden V answers some of these things, too. A possible rune cannon shell stockpile, in particular.

As for the means of production, we know that the final boss of Suikoden IV was what was producing the traditional shells, and Kyril destroyed the only other possible means of powering rune cannons during the course of Tactics. So, yes, the Island Nations have the shells, but they don't have a means of making any more.

Quote:
It is Satire if you think I know what happened and Ignorance if you think I don't know what happened. Or maybe its a cheap way to rack up word + post counts.

Either way I lose heh heh.

Satire is a very good thing, actually. Not a losing situation to be in.
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Fudozukushi

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wait, if that Tree created the shells and Kooluk had the Tree. How did Razril, Middleport, Gaien, Pirates and Obel get Rune Shells if their enemy had the main source of their production?
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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

From everything i could research about the island nations I can find at least 5 POSSIBLE reasons to make them a formidable foe.

1. the possibility that Lazlo is working for INF
2. possible rune cannon shells they can use(maybe doubtful but i wont put it pass them)
3. they control the trade route of the north and southern continent. Mess with them and the economy of Falena,Kooluk and Toran could suffer.
4. There superior Navy and knowledge of the seas
5. the island nations geographer could make it harder to invade.

Personally I found it funny that most people thought the island nations were weak merely becouse they seem to have the smallest landmass compared to other nations
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Rainrir

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Shell Smuggling? Not too sure about that...did ALL shells come from that tree ONLY? As in the tree is the sole producer for all the rune shells out there?

It is unlikely Warlock created only one source for making cannon shells. Perhaps, just perhaps, that there are other so called "spawnlets" of the Tree thing that can generate shells independently and are rather widesptread in the Island Nations area.c However, they draw their power from the Tree thing itself. You know, Kinda like how Fire and Rage Runes are spawn of the True Fire Rune and draws their power from the True Fire Rune.

Now if the Tree gets destroyed, these spawnlets lose their power to make shells? I wonder if a true rune ever gets detroyed will the spawned runes lose their power as well?

BTW, what is the technique of powering rune cannons that Kyril destroyed in Tactics?

As for Island Nation's vs Harmonia analysis, here's what I think

-If the INF is ever attacked, Lazlo (who is probably still alive) will come nuking the Harmonian Fleet with RoP. In my knowledge, other the Sun Rune, ROP is probably the only other Rune to show extreme physical destructive power. It is possible that not even Soul Eater can match that...as it is useless against things like ships/war wagons etc.

-Attacking INF means that Harmonia will have their flanks facing Toran if they attacked from the north...the last time I checked Toran and Harmonia are kind of at odds(this is the reason why Futch is sent to monitor Harmonia activity in the Grasslands). If the take the long route and hit from the South they will have their flank facing a hostile Falaena and possibly and threatened Armes. Either way they will have their supply lines strenched too far and thin. There is no way they can send their supplies efficient without passing Dunan. Toran, Kanakan, the Grasslands or Tinto Republic.

-Rune Cannons and rune Shells. Obvious technological advanatage, Harmonia probably fare better in ground wars than naval ones and their naval tactics will most likely involve mostly ship boarding for direct combat(where their soldiers will excel in..especially against the Islanders) or limited arrow barrages...both which can be easily countered by the superior range and power rune cannons even when sued selectively.

-Harmonia will be condemned by world opinion. INF is a MAJOR trading point for the world and the surrounding nations have a vested economic interest in keeping the status quo of the INF. If Harmonia have the balls to attack INF, most of the world will most likely be on INF's side and send troops to assist. Harmonia probably cannot fight such an alliance which include most likley Toran, Dunan, Falaena and maybe Armes/Tinto/Zexen/Gaien. Even if Harmonia can muster enough of an army to fight such a war, they will leave themselves open to Dunan and the Nameless's land's possible oppotunistic push into Harmonia.

-Geography of the Island Nations will probably screw Harmonian plans for invasion. There are like hundreds of decently size islands for the islanders to hide/ambush/flank the Harmonian navy. Not to mention the numerous hidden ship size caves (some ship PASSABLE caves)that some islands have but are uncharted. Furthermore, Harmonia might not have sufficient knowledge of the ocean currents which may screw up their navigation plans.(Like sailing against the current at a certain time of a year to reach an objective)
Harmonia will have the disadvantage as they do not have a good map of Island Nations while the Islanders know their way around. Tactically, Harmonia will be shadow boxing if they invaded INF without a complete knowledge of all the caves, islands and especially current patterns of the seas around INF.
Furthermore, with so many islands around it will be extremely bad for Harmonia if the INF fall back on using guerrila or razed ground tactics and Harmonia will be force to fight and Island hopping campaign that can be extremely extended and inflict great casualties on both sides. Think Japan in WW2, if the bomb is not used.

-Heat. This might seem like a mundane point but I believe that Harmonia is mostly temperate in climate. Combine that with the fact that Harmonians tend over overdress(with all their heavy armour), I believe at least 20% of the Harmonian forces will develop heat injuries or heat strokes. That can effectively cripple the Harmonian ability to attack wityh so many soldiers down. Furthermore, the fact that their troops will be unaccustomed to the tropical heat and that they are so overdressed the fighting ability of fit troops will lower as well.

-Pirates. With the war breaking out if Harmonia attacks, INF will have more resources devoted to repelling the invasion then containing pirates. Piracy will flourish and this probably be inHarmonian's disadvantage. Just think this, if you are a pirate will you attack a ship that came a VERY long way with an exhausted foreign crew or will you attack a ship that knows
the area well and only travelled for short distances?
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Acheron

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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I don't remember who summoned that tree but Warlock harnessed the power of the seeds and converted them into shells for the cannons and developed the canons themselves. Also, is it correct to assume that the shells house inate magic that is distinguished when used by a rune bearer thus we have someone with a lightning rune firing lightning shells and likewise with the other shells?

There was a chance to create a new tree, or at least that was my perception. In Tactics they happened across a branch of the summoned tree. If you nourished that branch it would have become another tree. I think Kyril destroyed that branch and thus shells can nolonger be produced.

The "Rune Canons" source in Tactics is a special kind off fish monster that really just turns people into fishmen. I think that it wasn't a Rune Canon in a traditional sense but more so in a thats-the-comparable-description. It was mounted on Steeles ship in that special contraption that would aim the eye and open it at will so it magiced people into fishmen, like a super canon. Just different kind. It's a bit confusing but there is no way to produce rune shells anymore after that tree was destroyed in Suiko4.
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