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Elixxur
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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And that's what I was implying, the random battles suck for they occur too often and too much. That is part of the battle system right? What other category would it fit under?
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Blazing Camp
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone has their preferences when it comes to battle systems. I think that the battle system in SuikoV is a identical with the ones in I and II, but are upgraded with fomations, skills, and 3d graphics. Mostly it reminds most fans of Suiko I and II's battles system and many of us prefered those systems over III and IV which is why alot of people like the battle system in SuikoV.
As for load times and random enocunters go, while it is excessive I've gotten used to it an I don't notice the load times. I honestly think that the load times were'nt that bad in the begining because it was more fluid than say, SuikoIV "ripple" effect or Xenosaga II's "glass shatter". |
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Sophita
The Wee Kitty Grand Duke Defense Brigade
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:11 pm Post subject: ! |
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| Elixxur wrote: |
| Actually I am an editor, the only reason why I use ellipses on here is because half the time when I post it is in the wee morning hours. Sorry if that changed your belief, not like I care if you believe that I am or not. I do have a BA in Journalism, and I am 24. What about you? =0 |
Someone who isn't trying to impress others by claiming they're an editor while being grammatically incorrect. ;) It's like being a doctor and then asking what that esophagus is good for.
You have a college degree and you're almost halfway through your twenties. Good for you (seriously - the more education the better, and I admire anyone who goes into Journalism knowing the difficulties of that field), but I fail to see how it's relevant...?
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| . Also I deplore the whole every five second I fight a monster system. I can't even take one step before I find myself engaged in another battle. Here I thought IV was bad. |
Oddly enough, I seem to have the opposite problem in this game - I wasn't getting in enough fights to level up well in dungeons, so I had to walk around extra a few times to buff up the party a bit. I didn't think it was anything like SIV, where I didn't want to go ANYWHERE because I KNEW I would be in 900 random battles before I got there (thank goodness for Viki).
Do you have a character with a great firefly (i think; firefly something) rune attached? That's the one that got me in a fight every five seconds. Horrible. I found SV unplayable with it on.
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| And btw, I never said anything about style. |
I wasn't replying directly to you (hence why I didn't quote you); I was talking about game reviews in general. RPGs are hard to grade, since you probably won't have time to finish the game before youve got to turn in the review (unless you're willing to be completely irrelevant, and publish a review a couple months after the game is out).
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| All I said was how slow of a pace this game has. |
I agree it has a slow start, but where I disagree is where you think it's an automatic negative. Why is it necessarily a bad trait? I think it's a neutral one. Yes, it has a slow start, but how does that hurt the quality of the game?
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It feels like it's more for the diehard fans especially with the horrid random battle system. |
Hardly the only game to use a random enemy battle system, mate.
I do agree there are a lot of winks to Suikoden fans and the game itself clearly apes Suikoden I/II in appearence, but I think it's enjoyable even if you didn't play the earlier ones.
Personally, I think the bad camera is a far worse flaw than a slow start and a random battle system.
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I just find it amusing how some fans think just because they (EGM) gave the game low scores, they think there is a favortism toward Square. I know many ppl think FF7 is the best one, but IMO 8 is the best one. 9 is the weakest one, since I did beat the final boss using level 2 magic =0 and in under 20hrs. |
*Laughs* And in my opinion, FFIX is easily the very best game in the series (and FFVI close behind), with FFVIII easily the worst. (Oh my, we all grew up together! We just forgot about it through a plot device! Ha ha! Here's a tacked on, unconvincing romance and a tedious battle system!) I think we have very different tastes. :o
I find it interesting you base your claims on the battle system, though. Is that your favorite aspect of RPG's?
Personally, I don't really find any gaming mag worth reading. ^^;
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poorguy171
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Elixxur wrote: |
| And that's what I was implying, the random battles suck for they occur too often and too much. That is part of the battle system right? What other category would it fit under? |
First of all, if a battle system (meaning how the battles are fought) is good, a general gameplay element (such as the encounter rate) should not make it bad. The battle system itself is identical to I and II, which just a few additions (all of which are improvements, seeing as almost none of them require actual use). The encounter rate would be more considered just a general gameplay element (fitting more in with dungeon design, if you want a specific category).
Regardless, the encounter rate is not that bad!!! Honestly, you should not be complaining about it if you are a fan of the random battle system or have played a good 10 or more random battle RPGs. While battles might be slightly more common than in the majority of RPGs, they're not unbearable. Saying you get in a battle every step is not even an exagerration, that's a flat out lie (unless you have the Great Firefly Rune equipped of course, but that's your own doing, and should be expected). Honestly, the random battles were just as frustrating as they are in other random-battle-RPGs during those long dungeons where you just want to move on.
I think the main problem is the dungeon design. Like in II and maybe even I, the dungeons are mostly long paths. They're not riddled with puzzles, and usually not very extravagent looking (I'm not saying this is bad. Suikoden's style is plain realism, not fantasy). This probably causes a degree of boredom. When you start getting into battles at a time when you just want to move on and get to something more interesting, the battles start to feel like a chore. It gets to the point where just more than one battle in a "segment" or room feels like one too many. This problem was most apparent in IV. The ocean was basically a big vast space of blue, with literally nothing to look at unless you were near a large island. See a pattern here? The more plain and average the environment, the more "common" the random battles felt.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I know many people who just hate random battles period. However, saying that the battles are waaaay more common than most other RPGs in Suikoden V, or exagerrating it greatly, is unwarranted and bascially untrue. I don't even believe Skies of Arcadia's battles were that common (although, I've never played the original which was supposed to be worse).
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Ninjar
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Sophita wrote: |
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| The game also takes way too long to get going-- we're talking several hours of setup before any thing important. |
And yet, Kingdom Hearts II, famous for it's multi-hour tutorial, I'm sure, got quite a better score... |
Allow me to say that I was seriously almost ready to quit at about Day 5. It was quite possibly the most annoying and repetitive thing I have ever had to do in the game. It took me well over two hours to complete the hellish tutorial and I do not think that I would like to replay the game simply because I would hate to have to go through that again. The 'slow start' in Suikoden 5 was nothing in comparison to the boredom I felt playing KHII's 'extensive' tutorial. I think I could have gotten everything down in about 20 minutes. There really wasn't all that much different. |
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Scott
Demon King's Ambition
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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THANK YOU Ninjar.
Kingdom Hearts II's whole little 8 friggin' hour tutroial was rediculous. Square expected everyone to know all the plotpoints from CoM and Kingdom Hearts I, but had an intro that treated you like an idiot that had no idea how to play a game. I wanted to quite by day 5 as well, but I won't go there, since this a Suikoden V discussion, not an "express your hate of Kingdom Hearts II" discussion.
Seriously. Kingdom Herat's 8 or so hour tutorial gives alomst no plot information and is nothing but mini games and fetching quests. Which are none to be plentifull in the game and rather obnocious. Suikoden's Intro, while longer, gives back story and at least sets up later events.
KH was FAR too bust being angsty and mysterious to bother to work on a decent plot early on, and even later on in my personal opinion, BUT despite a boring 8 hour introcustion/tutorial gets great scores. SUikodne's 12 hour or so Intro at least sets thinsg up. You learn about the Queen's behavior, the people's feelings on the Queen, the shady actions of the Godwins, the antics of Barrows...
And despite all this, it's a boring intro compared to KHII's Steallr one. .___.
The load time issues are bull too. it takes, on my DYING PS2 that won't even play DVDs, 5 seconds or so to enter a battle and a new area. KHII has no battle load, but the laod for a new screen is around 3-4 seconds, including the world specific zoom in effect thing. Did that extra second really hurt those reviewers THAT MUCH?
'Sides. From all I heard FFXII's Load times are just as bad as Suikoden V's...but I'm sure it toll will get stellar score all around. Really, like Sophita said "Personally, I don't really find any gaming mag worth reading. ^^;"
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Blazing Camp
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| Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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I think gaming magazines have gotten less useful now that there are many game-oreinted sites on the internet. Plus it's alot faster to get info of the web than in a monthly magazine.
I'll be honest in saying that I don't understand the comaprsion between SuikoV and KHII because boh are different types of RPGs (KHII is a more real-time action RPG) The only reason why it's being comapred is that they werer released within a week of each other. Still it is weird to see SuikoV to get a lower score than SuikoIV in some magazines, but game magazines these days are too inferior to the net these days, so whatever. :P |
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Dragonstar13
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| Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Elixxur wrote: |
| And that's what I was implying, the random battles suck for they occur too often and too much. That is part of the battle system right? What other category would it fit under? |
Sorry, but I really don't consider the random encounter as part as the battle system. I would categorize it as the game system. To me, accusing the battle system being bad, because of the load times, or random encounter, is like saying the graphics are horrible because the load time takes too long, or the camera angle shifts too much. It's not the graphics, it's the game system. The encounter rate, the response of talking to people, and camera angles I would consider the in-game system. The battle system is what it is. The actual battle system. Anyway, this is my opinion of course. So if this is all, then I hope you see why I(and probably others), consider the actual battle system similar to S1+2, aside from the addition of the formation.
| Sophita wrote: |
| I wasn't replying directly to you (hence why I didn't quote you); I was talking about game reviews in general. RPGs are hard to grade, since you probably won't have time to finish the game before youve got to turn in the review (unless you're willing to be completely irrelevant, and publish a review a couple months after the game is out). |
I agree. Suikoden 5 doesn't strike me as a story you can play through and get what's going on. I think it does help for you to go through the entire game, and then play it again, to get a better sense of things. Considering deadlines, there isn't really a fast way to fully experience this game. This is however, towards the story alone.
There hasn't been any mention on the endings either, so it makes me wonder what endings did the reviewers get. Or if they just looked at walkthroughs to try to quickly go through the game.
Oh and since we are writing some of our complaints here, I feel there was something I was meaning to get off my chest:
<spoilers>
Last warning for people who haven't beaten the game. This is a spoiler to the story. So don't read it.
Anyway, my problem is the way they presented Leknaat in particular. When I first played the game, I was constantly waiting to get a True Rune, or have Leknaat appear at some point. Well I guess this is better then S3, since she didn't show up until the end, and you get your army and castle half-way as well. Still, it frustrated me a bit waiting for the elements of the castle, and Leknaat appearing with the tablet of stars. There didn't seem to be any need for you to be trying to recruit people, unless you are a Suikoden fans, and know why it's important. I remember reading someone's topic, asking why they have to recruit 108 stars. I don't think it was presented well, and unless people read the walkthroughs, it's easy to miss early characters. Such as Oboro, Murad, and Wilhelm, causing you to miss many other characters as well. This is what happened to me the first time through. So I see this as a flaw, despite there are probably good reasons to present it this way.
<end spoilers>
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Elixxur
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Actually the random battles is horrid especially without a map. Try getting stuck in a cave without a map and every five (I actually time some of them) seconds you get mixed up in some random battle. Yes random battles is an element for rpgs, but at least MOST give you time to actually walk around. Half the time this game doesn't!
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dark-knight
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 1:01 am Post subject: |
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^i really think that they toned down the encounter rate here as compared to suiko 4's uber annoying random encounters.
as for the intro of kh 2 and suiko v also discussed here. all i can say that the intro of kh 2 is too damn long and i think it ends when the game shows the kh 2 logo which is 2-3 hours in to the game. suiko v's intro for me ends in the lordlake scene in the beginning imo, then the story starts to get pushed on ahead after that. just my observations. :D
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