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[Spoilers] Concerning Falena and Surrounding Nation's Geography
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: [Spoilers] Concerning Falena and Surrounding Nation's Geogra Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to just muse over the paradox involving Falena's geography along with the newly revealed nations surrounding it.

During the game, it is revealed that Falena is surrounded by the following nations.

New Armes Kingdom to the East (borders Sable).
The Theocracy of Nagaar to the Southwest (the mountain path between Falena and Nagaar has been totally destroyed by an earthquake about a decade ago, and there has been no interaction between the two nations since).
Kingdom of Zairland to the west (very little info about them).

Besides that, the main port used to get to Nilba Island (a border island between Island Nations and Falena) is Estrise (east side of Falena), while commerce between Zairland, Nagaar, and Kanakan is done through Hershville (west side of Falena).

All of this info poses a question about where exactly Falena is located. In particular, it makes little sense how Kanakan is only accessible from Hershville, while Nilba Island can be reached from Estrise. The official world map (after analysis by suikox scholars) shows that Kanakan is located to the north of the Island Nations, so unless Nilba Island is located very far east of the Island Nations, Hershville and Estrise's locations don't jive very well with in-game information.

Also, the official map for Suikoden V shows a mountain range to the north of Falena, and we see no ocean. In the official world map, the continent that Falena is on only shows the northern tip. With this info, we really have no idea where exactly Falena is located on the official world map. Perhaps there's another nation to the north of Falena once you corss the Astraz mountains, but there's no info. This is pretty frustrating.

Also, the "New Armes Kingdom" is named "New" because there used to be an "Old Armes Kingdom" which ruled the whole of the continent Falena is located on, which includes lands currently held by Falena, Zairland, Nagaar, and New Armes. This kingdom was destroyed a long long time ago by a king who went insane from the Sun Rune's power. You get to visit the ruin which used to be the capital of Armes, which also has something to do with Jeane. However, this old Armes has nothing to do with the "New Armes." The two are completely different nations, and New Armes is merely using the name.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Could it be possible that northern Falena is merely unimportant beyond those mountains? Much like how Scarlet Moon and later the Toran Republic apparently had control of northern Kooluk for a good 150 years but it was never visited or even mentioned in the 'modern' time period?

My main map (Here) would seem to make the Hershville/Kanakan trade importance incredibly stupid. Unless, perhaps, ships from Kanakan and/or Hershville need to stop by in porminent islands like Obel and Middleport. I could see why a ship from Middleport would choose to go to Hershville rather than Estrise, at least if my maps are in any way accurate.

As for Nilba, its position on my map is now in error, most likely but in a best case for scenario for continuity, it could possibly only be slightly east of Donut Island.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, it's likely the case thet the orth is unimportant, but I would have been a lot happier if they just gave us a nice coastline so we don't have to approximate the true location. It reminds of the difficulty we had determining Grassland's location due to Kaleria's location.

Oh yes, and some more information on Armes and Nagaar.

Armes is a nation ruled by a King with some power, but the nation is divided into fiefs ruled by various tribes. The tribes form a tribal council, where policies are decided upon. Obviously there are tribal politics, so there are different factions. You see this in the game where you fight against anti-Falena forces led by Maha Sparna while you end up befriending pro-Falena forces led by Shula Varya. The nation reminds me of old Afghanistan where there was a king, but most policies were made in the roya zirga (tribal council).

There's little info on Nagaar, but it's supposedly a very religious nation, far moreso than Harmonia. They even have a notorious "Armed Missionaries Army" which is known for it's military strength. Eresh is described as wearing the robes of a Nagaarian high-priest.


Last edited by Vextor on Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Indeed. But at least it turned out that the estimation of the position of the Grasslands in the wider world was in fact pretty dead on. So, at the very least it suggests that even Konami will follow basic logic with this, we just have to find the strand.

On another note, any flags, emblems or even prominent colours from these new nations?

Also, what's the 'feel' of these nations? New Armes seems to be the type of place which would call on 'its' past without having any claim to it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I edited some of that info onto my last post. And yes, some factions within New Armes indeed uses it's name to claim legitimacy over all of Falena.

The Special Ed book did have a number of flags, emblems, etc for Armes and Falena, but nothing for Nagaar or Zairland (and neither for Island Nations).
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: [Spoilers] Concerning Falena and Surrounding Nation's Ge Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sars wrote:
Kingdom of Zairland to the west (very little info about them).


Another Gaien Dukedom I see.

Quote:
Also, the "New Armes Kingdom" is named "New" because there used to be an "Old Armes Kingdom" which ruled the whole of the continent Falena is located on, which includes lands currently held by Falena, Zairland, Nagaar, and New Armes. This kingdom was destroyed a long long time ago by a king who went insane from the Sun Rune's power. You get to visit the ruin which used to be the capital of Armes, which also has something to do with Jeane. However, this old Armes has nothing to do with the "New Armes." The two are completely different nations, and New Armes is merely using the name.


How long ago was this? Are we talking pre- or post-Hikusaak hero war? And, because the old king went mad, are we to assume the Sun Rune has been "broken" for a very long time?

Also, slightly off topic, but does Suikoden V have any info on what (Tactics spoilers) the modern-day Kooluk region looks like?

I had always thought that Falena was on its own continent. I didn't think there'd be not one, not two, but three nations surrounding it (and of course, the Island Nations to the north). I smell another Jowston/Dunan here--I imagine Falena has had many skirmishes and conflicts with its neighbors over the years, but it probably does a lot better since it is a whole nation whereas Jowston was an alliance of not-always-friendly nations. What is Falena's military strength compared to other nations, specifically, Harmonia?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So I wonder if all of these nations are indeed considered the Southlands, they mentioned in Suikoden II, I noticed that Jidan 's attire looks similar to Shin, Kasim and Zamza so maybe they came from there? I was always under the impression that Falena wasnt in the south, but to the east of Scarlet Moon across the great sea as both Georg Prime and Shu mentioned in Suikoden II, I thought that Falena was the possible continet, nation that Albert Silverberg was trying to get in within their ranks, Falena is alot stronger like Harmonia, right?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If Nilba is only accessible from Estrise, that would probably put it... probably both the most southern and most eastern, maybe closer to the large island just off the coast of the Falenan Continent?

I wouldn't necessarily say that the current locations of Falena that we've plotted is completely out there - it makes sense based on what's been shown and mentioned. Perhaps it's just impratical to sail from Estrise to Kanakan due to other factors, such as currents and wind patterns? Or perhaps the waters to the east, the path through which a path from Kanakan to Estrise would take, pass far too close to New Armes territory or some other country located on the eastern landmass? I know there's no proof for either of these, but both do make sense for why Hershville would be the primary location of trade with Kanakan, but yet Estrise would be the best way to get to Nilba.

Also, John Layfeild, your map is a little incorrect concerning Budehuc - the land was considered remote by Zexen standards even during Suikoden 3, out in the middle of Grasslands territory. The common-land was then sold to the Karaya Clan, which would make it Grasslands territory, and it was probably surrounded by Grasslands territory in the first place for Grasslanders to so easily reach it.

Edit: And the Falenan continent is confirmed to be the south, as the official maps from the DVD names the southern continent as containing Falena.
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Vextor




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh yes, the Dukedom of Gaien still does exist during Suikoden V's timeline, because emissaries from the Dukedom are sent to Lymslair's coronation ceremony. Zairland, Island Nations, Armes, and SME also sent their emissaries; Nagaar was invited, but nobody came, apparently.

And the Old Armes Kingdom perished a long long time ago, way before the Hero War. Jeane mentions it being more than 1000 years ago, and that it predates the Sindars. I have no idea how long the Sun Rune has been without its counterpart, the Night Rune.

There's no mention of Kooluk or the formerly Kooluk regions.

Falena is militarily fragmented at the time of Arshetat's Rule. Powerful aristocrats have their own armies or hire mercenaries, while the royal family has their own force. The Feitas Dragon Knights are powerful, but its their policy to not intervene in internal matters; they only fight when outside forces invade Falena. In that sense, Falena is no match militaryily to Harmonia.

In fact, Cathari the HVG gunner was sent to Falena by Harmonia to investigate its relative strength. However, because Cathari reports that "Falena is pretty powerful" after the war, Harmonia apparently decided to not concern itself with Falena for many decades after.

Falena has had a major war with New Armes 8 years before the Suikoden 5 timeline. Otherwise, nothing has been mentioned. The aforementioned war with Armes plays a huge role in the plot, because it creates the backdrop in terms of intentions of many of the characters.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thanks for the information, Sars.

Sars wrote:
And the Old Armes Kingdom perished a long long time ago, way before the Hero War. Jeane mentions it being more than 1000 years ago, and that it predates the Sindars. I have no idea how long the Sun Rune has been without its counterpart, the Night Rune.


That was indeed quite a long time ago! Sierra's a young-un by comparison. :P

Quote:
There's no mention of Kooluk or the formerly Kooluk regions.


Too bad. I was hoping for some sort of reference to the events of Tactics in an Old Book or something.

One last question: are there any non-Falenan characters in this game, specifically ones who hail from any of the nations or lands showcased in previous Suikodens?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes. For example, Cathari is a member of the Howling Voice Guild, so she is from Harmonia. Also Lucretia Merces, your strategist, is originally from Karaya, and has witnessed the True Fire Rune blowing up (she was 2 or 3 years old). A number of characters from Island Nations join you (of course, the main character's dad is also from the Island Nations). Eresh is from Nagaar, and Shula, Zegai, and many others are from Armes. Norma and Ernst are from Zairland. So there are many characters who are not from Falena.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This must be the most pointless question... but in Suikoden V, do people still use the term 'Scarlet Moon' to refer to the Scarlet Moon Empire? I'm just wondering as I'm pretty sure that I've never heard it referenced without the suffix 'Empire' until Suikoden IV and I thought it a nice touch.

The more I hear, or rather don't hear, about Gaien the more interested I become in them. I never held much of an interest in Falena when it was a mystery but I suppose this is how everyone else felt about that. I like the concept of Gaien, which seems to be that it's just a nation. It's not a nation with ancient mystery or True Runes or events of global ramification. It's just Gaien. That's why I hold out for the day it gets introduced to the nation system. (i.e. never)

Unless of course, they're running around using True Runes in western politics to gain global power possibly involving the Western Continent. That would really disappoint me.

I'm please to see strands being weaved between the two seperate time periods although some clarification on Kooluk would have been nice. The Rhapsodia ending left a lot to be desired in terms of clarity and logic.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Wow..Lucretia is from Karaya Village? yeah I figured that young girl was from the HVG, do you think that there will be a future Suikoden telling the story of the Hero War?

Is Zweig also from the same tribe as Killey?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

All these new nations and no geographical sense of where they sit. This confounds my world map considerably. Though a lot of the map is heresay--espescially locations of mountains in "unexplored" lands it never the less frutrates me that Falena is shoehorned between half a dozen other nations and no good idea of their positioning. :x
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zahak wrote:
Wow..Lucretia is from Karaya Village? yeah I figured that young girl was from the HVG, do you think that there will be a future Suikoden telling the story of the Hero War?

Is Zweig also from the same tribe as Killey?


Zweig has nothing to do with Killey's tribe.
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