Is Suikoden 4 a disappointment ?

[Scherazade]

Yes, Suikoden IV was a huge disappointment for me. It is easily the worst Suikoden for several reasons.

Many fans like to say that the disappointment people feel from Suikoden IV comes from unrealistic expectations. If this was some other series (like Final Fantasy) I would agree with you. But the Suikoden series is unique because all the games take place in the same world, unlike Final Fantasy. Every time I play a new FF I start with a clean slate. However with the Suikoden games I have certain expectations because of the very nature of the games. In fact, the Suikoden series was progressing at a very steady pace up until Suikoden IV. In my opinion, Suikoden IV is a step backwards in the series.

First, the plot. Every Suikoden game had a story filled with intrigue, betrayal, triumph and failure. Hell, I can beat Suikoden I in less than twelve hours and it still contains a great story (at the cost of character development). Scenes of Pahn's betrayal, Gremio's death and resurrection, Odessa's death, Teo's death and final words, and several other scenes still resonate with me, even today. Needless to say, both Suikoden II and III increased the complexity of the plot as well as the number of memorable scenes. Suikoden IV's plotline was laughably flat and disappointing. Where was the epic story of war and conquest? After Kooluk starts to invade, you just jump from island to island until you can defeat them. Nothing stirring or emotional about that. There was so much potential in having a prequel but they dropped the ball.

Next, the setting was incredibly disappointing. The Island Nations just weren't that interesting. While every Suikoden has it's own well told storyline, each game told us more and more about the world of Suikoden itself. We learned more about the True Runes, Harmonia, governments and history. At the end of the day, Suikoden IV offered almost no new information about the world. Who was Kooluk and why did they want to invade the Island Nations? What were the politics behind it? What seperated Kooluk and the Island Nations? For example, the differences between Jowston and Highland in II could be easily observed as contributing to the animosity between the two nations. Same thing in III with Zexen, the Grasslands, and Harmonia. But I got no sense of identity of Kooluk or the Island Nations in IV. Not to mention that there wasn't much to the Island Nations itself. With a prequel, we could have learned so much about Harmonia, other true runes, other countries, etc. They also could have connected IV to the other games (besides have Ted play a small role). The writers did not capitalize on a great idea.

Next comes the gameplay. As everyone has said, controlling the ship was a nightmare, even without the random battles. Even using the R1 button to speed it up, it was still too slow. Not to mention the invisible force field around the islands that could cause the ship to do a 180 degree turn. The battles themselves, however, shared the one thing I have always like about Suikoden battles: they were quick. Overall though, the gameplay represented a backwards step. Reducing the battle party to four characters was a mistake as was the simplification of the whole system. The skill system from Suikoden III was sorely missed and limited the diversity of the characters. The naval battles weren't bad but larger fleet battles would have been nice. It also would have been nice if terrain could have played a role instead of the battleground just being flat ocean.

Lastly, the characters were pathetic. I can't even remember how to recruit just one character because none of them stood out. Some fans say that all Suikoden games have had some poorly developed characters and they are right. However, the problem was getting significantly smaller with each new game. Even Suikoden I had quite a number of interesting characters (Pahn, Gremio, Mathiu, Apple, Flik, Victor, Odessa, and several others). Each new game increased the number of interesting characters. Again Suikoden IV took a step backwards in this area. I can't even remember one name outside of the main cast (Eleanor, Cray, Lino, Snowe). Snowe could have been a great character if he actually had a major impact on the plot. He isn't even there for 3/4 of the game. Another backwards step was going back to the silent hero. I love Suikoden I and II, but the main characters in III were exciting because they could talk and interact with the world and events around them. The silent hero was a huge mistake, especially when the main character possess the Rune of Punishment. At least the heroes from Suikoden I and II had characters around them to help us see their feelings and pain. In IV, the Rune of Punishment barely gets a mention nor does the pain of the hero who could die at any time for helping people. Great story opportunity wasted.

In the end, it all comes down to one thing. Suikoden IV had the mechanics of a Suikoden game: The 108 stars, a blacksmith, a headquarters, some minigames, quick battles and some resemblance to the stories that came before it. Even with all that, Suikoden IV just didn't have the heart and the soul of the previous games. Maybe it left when the original creator left, but I hope the staff rediscovers it soon. Rhapsodia and Suikoden V will show whether or not they have what it takes.

As just another RPG, Suikoden is average to above average. As a Suikoden game, it is a bad game. Many people here have faith in Rhapsodia (as do I), but no matter how good of a game it is, it doesn't change how I feel about the game. There is no way Konami intentionally made IV so flat and lifeless on purpose. The idea for Rhapsodia prrobably didn't exist yet. Unless Rhapsodia sheds a lot of light on the world of Suikoden IV, I will never play it again.

[Aurelien]

Alright, I'm up to the part just after re-taking Obel. I know that I haven't finished the game just yet, but I think I have enough experience in the game to sort of "review" it (prepare for a long post from me).

To me, Suikoden IV is disappointing, but not because it's a bad game, but more because the game could have been SO MUCH better if it's tweaked properly. It has huge potential, but being blown away by failing to deliver. There are so many possible greatness, but they just didn't use it. Why? No one really knows why. Okay, so let's start.

First of all, the storyline. Like I said before, I haven't finished the game, but I believe I'm really right up that end of the game. So far, the story was too simple, too short, and too easy to predict. Suikoden I, II, and III all had a conflict between the characters because they always tinkered with the concept of grey area. That's why Suikoden series have always been great for me, because they can portray the grey area, leaving the players having a conflict even with themselves to decide whether this or that was right or wrong, the villains weren't "bad". It was never black or white, it has always been grey. But in Suikoden IV, until the very end of the game, I have nothing good to say about Graham Cray ... or even worse, I don't have anything to say about him at all because his character was never shown properly to the players. We got bits and pieces shown ... but they played the whole "mysterious villain" card way too much that we don't even know anything about the main villain.

The overall conflict between Kooluk and the other islands wasn't really done properly either. It doesn't really make sense that Gaien easily gave up Razril, Snowe "selling out" Razril to Kooluk, Snowe's daddy sudden return when Kooluk army were sent away by Hero IV, etc. It's just too weird. Middleport's role? Almost nothing despite being one of the few "strong" islands. Kingdom of Obel? It's decent, but almost no role either in the overall conflict.

Then the part of forging alliance ... I don't know why, but I really feel that everything goes too simple. Middleport became an ally simply because we kill that hideous monster. Despite being the pet of the island's Lord, the son had the say over the father .... no idea why. Nay became an ally, but only supporting by giving two people who used to run a coffee shop not in Nay, but in Iluya... what the heck? Na-Nal was weird too. Why did Selma suddenly let the humans go out of nowhere? It doesn't really make sense.

Last but not least, I find it disappointing that Leknaat has such a small role that it's almost not even an issue at all. She was supposed to be an important character in the game, but noooo .... she's not in this game.

Overally, the storyline became a bit too weird and we spent most of the time sailing on the sea (or teleporting between islands trying to recruit characters) rather than focusing on the main storyline.

Next is the gameplay. Easiest to complain of them all, the 4-men party. With so many characters to play with, 4-men party is simply not sufficient enough to give the player enough chance to play around, especially combined with the really short story. There was simply not enough chance to try out the characters. Yes, there's the training hall, but it's different smacking monsters and smacking comrades.

The 4-men party also provides me with a headache in determining which 4 characters to use. Bringing a healer/support magician would take 1 spot. Bringing a pure offensive magician would take 1 spot. The Hero takes 1 spot too. That leaves us with 1 pure physical character. Not enough room in the party to be flexible. Granted that we can make the hero to be the healer, and that'd open up 1 extra space, but that is still not enough because of the unite attack. There are quite a lot unite attacks. If we want to bring characters that have unite attack, then we're very limited in deciding the remainder of the characters. This is simply annoying. I can't make a party that consists of the characters that I would love to have in a 6-men party.

Next is the ship at the world map. Unlike most people, I don't really have any issues with it to be honest. I like the ship when it sails, I don't really have any problem with the 180 degrees sudden turn when you hit the "invisible wall", etc. One that does bother me a bit is the crazy encounter rate that gets annoying after a while, though it helps to fund my party, and it gives the "items" dropped by monsters (I like bringin Oskar when sailing around).

Then the ship itself. I like the concept of ship as the headquarter, I feel that it suits the sea theme, but unfortunately, ship forced the headquarter to be separated into many small pieces/screens. It really lacks the "big open area" for everyone to gather. The War Room seems to be the place where the characters meet, but it's not really that big, and most of the times, it's empty. The deck is quite okay, but not as fun as the areas in previous games. The saloon is more like the place for mini-games characters to hang out rather than having other purpose. And somehow, I don't like the "Empty Rooms".

The battles. As usual, there are three types of battles in Suikoden IV, the one on one duel, the normal party battle, and the major battle. The one on one went back to basic stuff of rock-paper-scissor, and I LOVE the battle animation. Unfortunately, they were all too predictable with the quotes, making the battles really easy. The normal battles are okay, it's quick enough when it comes to physical and magical attacks, but unfortunately, it's a bit too long when it comes to unite attacks. They seem to want to put emphasis on unite attacks for whatever reasons. Not only that we are forced to watch the whole animation of the unite attacks, we are also forced to watch the characters being showed closely at the end of the battle. I do like the concept of leveling up in the unite attack itself. Then the major battle, I LOVE the naval battles as well, but it is very much too easy to be considered as a challenging battle. There was no real strategy involved other than using the correct rune cannon. The "board" fight was a disappointment because we can only attack, making magicians to be useless in there.

One thing that I'd like to slip in here is the combination of battles and storyline. Unlike the previous Suikoden games, Suikoden IV lacks "dungeon" badly. Obel Ruins is probably the only dungeon in the game that is a bit fun to explore, the others (if any) are way too short (4-5 screens til the end? the one in Hermitage Island was a joke). Putting random battles in the city/town doesn't help because we don't want to be bothered with fights when we want to explore the town. The lack of dungeon is very apparent by the fact that whenever we want to conquer an island, we only need to win the naval battle. There seem to be NO attempt whatsoever from the opponent to protect the city. They lost the naval battle, then give up/surrender/join us/ask to be executed/whatever. I would've preferred to infiltrate the castle or something rather than winning a ridiculously easy naval battle.

Now here comes the fun part, the characters. Easily the worst 108 Star of Destiny ever. There are some characters that stand out. To me, Kika is probably one of the best female characters in Suikoden series. Paula and Selma were good too with sword using elves rather than the typical bow users. Reinbach III showed decency with the whole Millay thing, etc. But unfortunately, most of the characters were mostly lacking detail very much. Some of them didn't make sense as to why they'd join, and some of them could've been much better if portrayed properly. For example, Helmut. He switched side WAY WAY WAY too easy it's like it doesn't really matter for him who he works for. Then Snowe, okay, name a character who is a worse loser than him. NONE. He could've been an important character in the game if he was portrayed as a capable character that could threatened Hero's credibility somehow. But instead, Snowe was used as a weakling who was jealous. Why? It doesn't even have anything to do with the storyline.

Then comes the recruitment part. For the characters who didn't join automatically, or didn't join after talked to once, most of them were simply too vague to recruit. How can we know that to get Warlock we need to first talk to Pablo? Do I look like someone who would explore the ship and talk to everyone every single time? Why would I want to talk to Pablo for the second time anyway? Then Millay, Helga, etc whose existance only exist after we talk to townspeople. Why would I want to talk to everyone all over again when 90% of them said the same thing? It doesn't really make much sense.

Up next is the location/town/cities/islands. Suikoden IV needed more islands or dungeons to be in the game, badly. Having only Obel, Nay, Na-Nal, Middleport, and Razril as the main islands were not enough, especially since Obel, Middleport, and Razril were inaccessable most of the times while Nay and Na-Nal played such a small role in the storyline. Iluya was already destroyed. Mordo, Donut, Lime, and Mountain served nothing other than an eye-candy. Hermitage Island .... 1 hut 1 cave ... why? Then Deserted Island, the fun island which unfortunately only have 5% role in the game. Sadness.

Not only they need more islands or dungeons to be in the game, Suikoden IV also needed to make the existing islands to have more to explore. I find it disappointing that everything seems so small. Only Razril looks to be a big place, the other islands are small tiny things with nothing to see. Heck, Donut Island doesn't even have anything to see at all. It's just one round donut looking island.

Last but not least, the mini-games. There are way way way way too many mini-games in Suikoden IV that it really takes away the attention from the main storyline. We would spend twice as many hours to play the mini-games (if we want to truly play them) than the main storyline. Treasure Hunting is crazy (I couldn't be bothered to really try to get all the maps, I couldn't be bothered to try to find the treasures either), not to mention that Rene was in a room that was labeled as "Empty Room" ... even finding her is as mysterious as finding the treasures. And same goes with most of the mini-games, either too time consuming (net fishing for great items, Mushroom growing) or useless (Noah's card game, Pecola's decoration thingy, etc). If only they put as much effort in developing the storyline as they put in the creating the mini-games.

Surprisingly, overally, I still love Suikoden IV. It only frustrates me that it could've been so much better, but it's not. So Suikoden IV is indeed a disappointment, but by no means a bad game for me.
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~City-States of Jowston and Tinto Republic~
06.06.2004 - 20.01.2008

[Beecham]

You made a hell load of sense, Black Pes, but you are also somewhat one-sided in some parts.

[Aurelien]

[MichaelW]

I'll make this simple.

Things that I'm disappointed in and things I would change/add::

The 4 party system. They went back to how things were in S1 and S2. If I did, I would probably add Kika and someone like Lino/Gau with my Hero/Snowe/Ted/Maxine party.

And another is because characters would have more dialouge. Let's say if there was a six party member and they were at the Elenor detachment event. I would take: Lo Seng, Lo Fong, Lo Hak, Gretchen, Millay, and Helga. When they reach inside, Lo Fong would say something, Lo Hak would say something all the way to Helga. (This thing sort of happened at Cyndar Ruins in Suikoden 3)


Lack of Character involvment:

For example, I took Ted, Maxine, and Snowe. So why wasn't they shown when confronting Cray with the Giant Tree? They could've had their own voice-acting dialouge?? Not to mention, they should've had them shown and tell the Hero to escape (as in Suikoden 2 and Suikoden 3 ) .

Same thing for Tristan, Jeremy, Travis, and Wendel to fight Cray. Why weren't they shown when confronting Cray pre-battle? When Cray was about to shoot Elenor, They could've had Tristan/Jeremy/Travis/Wendel. scream Elenor's name, then Ramada appears to save Elenor and etc..

Since Suikoden 3 had extra-dialouge events at the Ceromonial Site (Geddoe and Chris' party in the hallways), how come Frederica didn't have words for Cray??? That scene at the bottom of el-Eal was not enough.

If 107 Stars Of Destiny is all it takes to recruit the 108th/final star Snowe, how come Wendel didn't have a voice-acting part in the Snowe cutscene? They could've show her spotting Snowe, tells Nico, and then the party arrives.


Plot Events:

Why not go to Gaien and attempt support, even if you get rejected?

---------------------

The liberation of Razril SUCKED @$$!!!!!! (pardon me)

Know that I never played Suikoden 2, but I read about the liberation Greenhill and Muse in walkthroughs and the events and that is better than this.

What should've happened was that you have the ship battle with Helmut. He retreats to Razril. Pick a party.

They could've had Ameria (since Razril hired her) join you temporarily and Two Knights You left behind, join with you and fight Kooluk Soldiers, then you fight one of Troy's Genreals :) (see below towards the end of my post) and then Razril is free, then the crap with Vingerhut and all that stuff happens.

I'm at least glad there is an extra scene with Katarina at sunset if you have her with you.

Star of Destiny:

Some things that bothered me was that characters join at odd points.
Why couldn't you recruit Nabokov when fleeing Obel? Or how come Hero/Flare didn't recruit Noah when fleeing Obel?

I can understand Rachel and Carrie, but Naobokov and Noah?? Come on now!


Ending:

I felt the ending was rushed. I can't believe they would screw over Snowe in the ending. He's pratically the reason Hero4 got involved in all this mess.

If the Hero4 lives, how come they didn't have Snowe go off with the Hero or something? And since Snowe is with you, it would've been nice fi they showed him in a scene with the Hero4 in the botat after the credits roll.



Lack of villains.

Graham Cray is boring. Luca Blight puts him to shame.

Like others said, I felt that Troy was shown too quikcly. I think there should've been like 3 fight s with Troy you can lose.

Besides Colton, I would make Troy have two subordinate generals working uner him (like Seed and Culgan) and they would give up thier lives for Troy or something like that you know? These same Gernals you would fight at Razril. It's like I mentioned above in the liberation of Razril above.


So overall , Suikoden 4 is an okay game, but it just needs to be spiced up a notch. Hopefully Suikoden 5 can use most of these elements.

[Jurhael]

Hmmm...I wasn't disappointed. In fact, I enjoyed it a great deal. A little moreso than Suikoden 3. However, I did feel like something was missing as things went on a little too fast and the ship riding got a little tedious. But, I found myself liking it a lot more than I though.

I guess it's because I wasn't expecting too much.
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Let's waste time chasing cars....

[Himuro]

I thought SIV was around below or in the middle in terms of quality. I think it's a game that didn't fulfill it's full potential, and the majority of the game feels rushed. Definitely average and most DEFINITELY the worst and ONLY disappointing Suikoden.

[Holy Paladin]

This is what I wrote on Suikosource today about how I feel about Suikoden IV.

[Lord_Tiberus661]

i personaly thought that the game lacked character depth. it was also way to easy to complete. i mean, the final boss sucked pretty bad. he was too easy to beat. it took me a couple of tries beat suikoden 3's boss. even more for suikoden 1 and 2. so to me, yah it was a dissapointment. they could have done better. :cry:
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The strenght of my Mercinaries will overcome those who stand against me.

[Kobold]

Yes it is. While it DID have certain good parts, the bad parts still made it a disappointment as a Suikoden game, and probably as an RPG...

Of course no game will be so terrible it had no good point, but just that in this case, S4 just wasn't good enough...
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Kobolds are great!

[soulmate]

Suikoden IV was very disappointing to me. That doesn't mean it's bad though. It's an okay game on it's own but many fans were expecting something more(like me) The story mixed with the gameplay just doesn't keep you interested in playing it.(I finished it though twice)

The setting is over 80 percent water and the rest is land. To make it worse you'll be doing a lot of ship travelling. The ship is slow and it took me over 30 minutes to get from one place to another(before I found out you could slowly speed the ship up). To make it even more worse there is a lot of random encounters with monsters.

The battle system feels a bit watered down for me. The greatest number of characters you can have in battle is four although when you are out travelling on your ship you can change the characters battling. When someone attacks in a batlle they run super fast to the enemy and slashes,stab,etc then go back super speed style again. The rune attacks really look good especially when you combine them to make a more powerful attack. The combos looked decent but I didn't fully enjoy them because I really didn't like that characters. The war battles are at sea. They could have been better if there were more ships and more options in attacks. You attack using a rune cannon(fire,water,wind,earth,lightning) or board there ship and go out all attacking without the use of runes.

Graphics look great and better than the past suikoden titles. It's just that it could have been prettier. There wasn't much use of colors in this suikoden. Most you see blue, brown, white, and some duller colors. It really dampens the mood and atmosphere for the game.

Sound fits the theme well. The voice acting though was horrible. The sound effects and music were decent at least.

Characters are what I look for most in Suikoden and the depth of each one. In my opinion this is the worse cast of characters I've seen. First we see talking dogs, lizards, ducks, and now cats... Those cats way of standing and walking really annoy me. It makes me want to drown them although I thought Chiepoo and Nalkul were pretty cool. The main character is silent but he looks ... scary and he has short shorts that I just feel like ripping my eyes out when I see him. The costumes of the characters and the overall design looked bad(for the majority of the cast). Well the design and costumes may fit the game's theme but I still wanted more from a Suikoden. There was no depth except for a few characters like Snowe but it wasn't as in-depth as it could have been. It feels like the stars of destiny(most of them) you recruit just want to join you for no reason at all. You probably won't use 60 percent of the characters you recruit. The supporting cast is so-so at most.

Overall I made it sound really bad but it can be enjoyable. I don't recommend it. The story doesn't keep you interested. The graphics look good but aren't executed correctly. The gameplay is no fun. The sound has it's good points but the voice acting is BAD. The replay is like 10 hours I think or less. The characters haven't been focused on too much and the only time you get a change in emotion is when you read the fate of the stars of destiny(like Kika :cry: ). This is no doubt the worse of the series and the most uninteresting in my opinion.

[Clouds In A Suit]

Since I'm replying kind of late into the topic, I hope I don't sound too redundant.

I was very excited for Suikoden 4 upon its initial announcement. I wasn't expecting a sequel so soon after Suikoden 3. When reviews started pouring in from those who played the Japanese version, I thought they were overwrought with hyperbole; since I loved Suikoden 3, and that was panned pretty badly by many fans (from what I saw) when it was released.

As I got my hands on the game, and had the opportunity to see what all the hoopla was about for myself, I became rather disillusioned and couldn't believe the reviews I had read were "right". The game felt like a chore to complete. I hated sailing, thought the story moved at a lightning pace with no real development, and was overall, very underwhelming. After completion, I put it away thinking I was never going to touch it again.

A few months later, I suddenly had the impulse to replay it. I started a New Game+, took my time (I rushed through the first time), and had a good time. I still have some qualms with the game, but I have a new appreciation for it.

My gripes:
Antagonists that played a small part in the story, until the end of the game, where they feel tagged on, just to give way to the final battle. The final duel with Troy felt like it should have been epic, but it just wasn't. I didn't get a good enough impression of him to really care. The same with Cray, although he did get a little more development with the quick glipse of his backstory.

The world map felt too empty. There is a massive amount of unused space that could have housed a few more islands that could've hosted miniquests and other optional material.

The four person party: another member here mention most of what I would say; it really takes away from the gameplay, because of the limitation of party combinations.
It's really hard to get a versatile party, and still have Unites available. The party-switching on the ship HQ was nice, though.

I don't like not being able to buy stuff for, and equip/unequip my characters without them being in my party. Suikoden 2 and 3 were very refreshing in this sense. Going back and forth, adding and subtracting party members to upgrade their gear and weapons was a pain. Also, not being able to sell items at your HQ was a hassle. I don't know why they removed that feature.

Most of the magic animations were too basic. Magics spells don't have to be longwinded orchestras of destruction, but it's nice when they at least look damaging. A few of the higher-up spells were pretty nice, however.

Those are my main complaints. They don't make me hate the game, though.

What I like:
I am fond of most of the characters, despite the lack of development for the majority.
The elements given to them through bath scenes, confession, and comment box were enough for me to get a a grasp on who they are. I was even able to recognize most of the people during the confessions, who didn't have an obvious silhouette.
I think the character designs themselves are quite good, also. I don't see what most people are disappointed with in that aspect. The Suikoden series as a whole, has had stellar character designs, in my opinion.

The fact that the Unites level up was a good addition. It definitely increased their usefulness. I wasn't too thrilled that they had to be learned, but it's only a minor issue.

I didn't bother with the weapon sets in Suikoden 3, but in S4, I went out of my way to make them. I hope they return again. I liked gaining materials and getting the equipment made by Adrienne and Phil. I always like when an RPG has a wide-variety of armors with different effects when worn, instead of more of the same, only with slightly higher defense.

Even though the story is short, I still felt like I had plenty to do before the game ended. The HQ offered some good time-killers. I liked the HQ ship in itself, as well.
It was fun being a pirate. Yes.

Replaying Suikoden 4 has really made me look forward to Suikoden Tactics.
The fact that basically all my favorite characters return is an extra bonus.

[fc_conn]

Suikoden IV is not a dissapointment to me.

*spoilers below*

I was touched by the various trials that poor ol' Lazlo had to go through. Snowe was a jerk, but it made forgiving him that much better. I was sad when Glen died, and the Rune of Punishment was an interesting and haunting idea that I really enjoyed. I really felt like I was given a second chance when Lazlo got up in the boat and waved goodbye to everyone. It stuck with me, and I thought about it and talked about it for quite a while afterwards.

The game is SUBTLE. Everything about it is very, very subtle, from the plot and character development to the graphics and music. The graphics are very gray, washed-out, realistic, cold and bleak - and I think that is for a reason. Every game doesn't need to be happy and colorful and full of vivid rainbows (!!). The story of the Rune of Punishment is not a happy one. Besides, I rather liked the realistic, dark take on the graphics. It was a nice change of pace from Suikoden III's more upbeat and cheerful feel.

Also of note was the excellent score. I own the OSTs to all four Suikoden games, and I find IV's music to conatain some excellent melodies. The first version of the home base song is lovely, and the battle music is some of the absolute best in the series. Listen to the boss and duel themes, they are impeccable.

The game was both chilling and heartwarming for me. And I indeed have played all the other Suikoden games. To me, it was a wonderful game.

[Leon Silverberg]

I try to make it short...

It's a good game, but not a good suikoden.

There werde many things in it that had potential but they didn't developed them to what we wanted to see in this game...

and there were many disappointing thins like the worldmap, the 4 character battle system, the bad battlesystem rune-animations.., the random enemy-battles that occured every 3 seconds, the poor developed hero...,
the dumb characters of the 108 SoD that joined your group because of reasons like "oh you shirt is nice" or "you like books about interior" and so on..

[camus_greenhill]

Oh God yes it was!
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"I...I am...I AM. I am a human first and a knight second! I don't need your title! I resign myself to your disgrace!" -Miklotov, S2