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Makai Kingdom
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Zero

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

And on top of that, it was the challenge in Disgaea that made it so emersive. The fact that you had to use very efficent tatics or die, basically. I find games that make you think to be ten times more enthralling than something that's just kinda fun...sometimes.

The only real catch for me on Makai Kingdom is that you have to work to unlock all the classes (not that that is any different than the other series). That is the only reason I've put as much playtime into it as I have.
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Benit149

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've been replaying Makai through to get the successful Pram ending. Hasn't happened yet, but that's what free dungeons are for. But as I went along with the bits of story I cared about, I realized to a full extent that Makai's storyline is, IMO, the worst of the Nippon games so far. Why? Well I'll divulge myself in the blackened paragraph below this one. For those who know the story entirely, read on. For everyone else, stay away. There are MAJOR spoilers ahead.

*SPOILER*

- You have an interesting concept at the beginning. Zeta, an overconfident Overlord, suffers from his own arrogance and almost destroys everything, including himself, in the process. He manages to save himself, but must start over from scratch. Zeta gains some rather shaky allies to assist him in creating new worlds for him, and encounters numerous obstacles along the way. Okay, good so far for a game focusing on villains. His expressions while trapped in the Sacred Tome are hilarious as well.

I begin to have problems when Salome is introduced. With her, Makai Kingdoms goes from reviving Zeta's world to enacting a really bad soap opera for the last four chapters. Where did this come from? I thought Zeta was going to fight some big, nasty Overlord who wanted anything and everything for himself, but instead we're treated to a lovesick vixen who clearly has bad taste in men. An unexpected villainess, sure, but that's better for something other than Makai Kingdom.

Speaking of that big nasty Overlord thing, I was hoping that The One, the arbiter of the entire universe, would be the final boss because Zeta did something REALLY wrong while reconstructing his Netherworld. If Zeta actually WAS cursed and had to go for a cataclymistic (sp?) showdown with The One, this would be a great game. But that idea is fried by a Zeta Beam before you even know it. A shame too, considering all the possibilities.

And for such a short game, you have too many characters squeezed into one place, some of whom have mysterious ulterior motives. Alex, Drake and Salome are obvious, Babylon and Valvoga don't do anything, while Seedle and Pram have the strangest and vaguest motivations for what they do. Trenia doesn't count because she's not an Overlord: pretty frightening how the Sacred Tome's personality is like that. Speaking of these Overlords, I have some problems with Pram. She may be powerful, but what the hell was she thinking, writing in the Sacred Tome and pretending to be an oracle? I haven't gotten the good Pram ending yet, so I don't know if this is explained or not. I hope it is, or else Pram is nothing more than an egotistical albino who needs a better sense of fashion. X_X;; And don't get me started on Seedle: he's just plain annoying.


NIS crammed way too many gaming features into Phantom Brave, but concocted a strong story. In Makai Kingdom, they did the opposite by refining the system, but totally losing focus of the story in the process. If they keep Phantom Brave's story formula and Makai Kingdom's strategy system for the next game, I'm sure it'll become the next Disgaea, and they can churn similar games like this with experimental tune-ups that strategy-seekers look forward to. But as it stands, Makai Kingdom is no Disgaea to me.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zero wrote:
The fact that you had to use very efficent tatics or die, basically.

Tactics? The general concensus of the Strategy-RPG crowd is that Disgaea used no strategy. All you did was level incessantly; an NI trait.

And the story was charming. Having a big showdown with an evil being is always what Nippon Ichi tries to avoid. It wants the humorous and the ridiculous, not the trite and the overused.
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Benit149

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That's true for NIS games that feature bad guys as your protagonists, like Disgaea and Makai. Makai's fights weren't humorous, but they were certainly unexpected and ridiculous. For La Pucelle and Phantom Brave, the stories were about ordinary young girls with passion fighting the big bad evil while proving themselves. The story formula seems to rotate with each new release, as I'm beginning to notice. If I'm any judge, the next NIS game will follow the Puclle/Brave formula of storytelling... but I'm just guessing here.
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Zero

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Makai still does not live up to it's predicessors I believe. It's a solid game, however it didn't better any flaws in the other games. They mesh quite easily actually.
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Timbo

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My main problem with Makai Kingdom is how Zetta doesn't do anything in the battles other than summon units, he essentially becomes a glorifed starting point for the board. I think a cool addition would be making him able to "Invite" enemies to your side if he is in range of them adn there are at a certain life percentage, and it would make a reason to carry him around and keep him close.

I'd also like if they makede the classes have more variety. Disgaea had the different monster class abilities, Phantom Brave had the timers and La Pucelle they were entirely unique, Makia Kingdom I have noticed very little difference. A warrior with a Sword and a Sword Master with an Sword are only different in damge done, that shoud be changed.

I love the new vehicles and facilities though, they were brilliant ideas. I wish they would have kept the timer from Phantom Brave though, I really loved that and I wish they would have kept the ability to use anything in the game as a viable weapon. I loved my starfish and rock in Phantom Brave.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anything can be used as a weapon in this game. Well, everything except vehicles and buildings. But, even the Sacred Tome can be used as a weapon.

And I like how the entrance to the battlefield has a personality. Remember, the "portal" in Disagaea was esentially the same thing, so there's nothing wrong with adding depth to it.
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Timbo

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anything can be used as a weapon, but flowers and trees and the like make for really horrible ones. Their attack is weak and they don't level up, while in Phantom Brave a weed could be just as good as a sword. I wish it was like that still.

The portal in Disgaea wasn't the main chracter though, I think it's kind of dumb to have the main character be nothing more than glorifed starting point.
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Filipe

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well having just gotten the game, and not going home quite yet, I am quite interested in seeing what the game is going to be like. I have already played, and beaten Disgaea, La Pucelle, and Phantom Brave so I dont think I will be too hard pressed when playing this game. Anyways aside from the obvious things that come with all the games of this type, I am wondering if there is anything else I should know before playing?

Is there anything about the gameplay that is so different from the others besides sacrificing characters from either of the other two games? Doesnt seem like it, but you never really know until you ask someone about it, or find out yourself. I will get to playing some of it soon, but right now im at the PC station waiting for a computer with World of Warcraft.
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Gaara

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Leb wrote:
Have you fought the second Baal fight (when he's in Battleship Yoshitsuna)? That's insanely more difficult than Uber Prinny Baal.


Yeah, I fought Baal in Battleship Yoshitsuna. I still find the Uber Brinny fight much more difficult because for 1, I actually won the Yoshitsuna fight and I'm still trying to beat Uber Prinny. Some of my characters can't even damage Uber Prinny and they're all at Level 9000 or above.
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Raze

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Timbo wrote:
Anything can be used as a weapon, but flowers and trees and the like make for really horrible ones. Their attack is weak and they don't level up, while in Phantom Brave a weed could be just as good as a sword. I wish it was like that still.

The portal in Disgaea wasn't the main chracter though, I think it's kind of dumb to have the main character be nothing more than glorifed starting point.


It's been implied, but the importance of Items to Character stats has been completely reversed from Phantom Brave to Makai Kingdom. In Phantom Brave, you could give a level 1 noob a god-like weapon, and go to town on hoards of enemies, because level and character stats didn't mean a whole lot compared to the boosts a weapon could give. However, in Makai Kingdom, character stats play a much more important role. In Makai Kingdom, you can't give a level 1 fighter the Genesis sword (best sword-class weapon) and expect him to go head to head against the final boss. You could concievably do that in Phantom Brave, though.

and...
[SPOILER!] Eventually, You can reincarnate Zetta back to his original body, and, given enough time, can horribly overpower any other character in the game. (we're talking an attack stat that falls just shy of 850,000 at Lv 9999, give or take, depending on what you bind his soul to. [/SPOILER!]
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Orochi

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:23 pm    Post subject: leader Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I used the witch as the leader for my entire group, until later when I accessed a few 'special' characters. I made him the leader.
Since, I used magic pretty often in the game, the witch was very valuable to me and gained A LOT of mana to build up my other stuff.
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Leb

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You know, I'm still playing this game. I've done all there is to do, but I always pop it in and just.. putter.
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Timbo

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Leb wrote:
You know, I'm still playing this game. I've done all there is to do, but I always pop it in and just.. putter.


I was doing the same thing until X-men Legends 2 came out.

Quote:
It's been implied, but the importance of Items to Character stats has been completely reversed from Phantom Brave to Makai Kingdom. In Phantom Brave, you could give a level 1 noob a god-like weapon, and go to town on hoards of enemies, because level and character stats didn't mean a whole lot compared to the boosts a weapon could give. However, in Makai Kingdom, character stats play a much more important role. In Makai Kingdom, you can't give a level 1 fighter the Genesis sword (best sword-class weapon) and expect him to go head to head against the final boss. You could concievably do that in Phantom Brave, though.


Granted that the weapons did get way overpowered in Phantom Brave, I stil enjoyed the ability to combine them and to use anything as a weapon, I think it would ahe been best if they siply toned down how powerful the weapons get by combining them, plus one of the reasons it was so easy in Phantom Brave to get massively powerful weapons was the presence of "Failure dangeons", which Makai Kingdom doesn't have, so I don't know if it would be as overpowered, or it would just be a lot harder to get it as overpowered.
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Raze

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, s'been a while since I've posted my progress...well, actually, I haven't posted my progress at all.

Name: Raze
Time: 70+ hours
Class: Rouge (Berserker)
Level: 169

Granted, I've been following DJ's strategy guide and am in the processess of creating the Ultimate Generic Character, so My little guy's Attack is roughly around 11,000 (massive for my level, but in the grand scheme o' things, not that impressive yet, but I've still got a few more reincarnations to go through. ;3) or so, with a champion belt, and another weak belt on. I've unlocked the first 4 secret characters, and I'm on my second playthrough.

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