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The End of the NHL lockout?

 
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Will the NHL be able to recover from the negative effects of the lockout?
Of course, people will flock back to the wonderful game of hockey.
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
It will do fine in Canada, but will struggle in the US.
80%
 80%  [ 4 ]
It will be shaky for everyone, but the league will pull through.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Forget hockey, I've moved on to other things.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 5

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Kalidor

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: The End of the NHL lockout? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It looks like the end of the lockout is finally around the corner, and I know that it has been about eight months too long in coming for my tastes. From scattered reports that I'm hearing, it seems that the Players Union is going to be settling for far less than they hoped to get out of the new collective bargaining agreement. Players like Roenik have sounded off about it, saying that they should have settled in January, when they could have gotten something more than they will now. The Los Angeles times reported today that a salary cap will be put in place at fifty four percent of league revenues, and that current salaries for the players will be rolled back by almost a quarter.

I don't know if this is the right solution for hockey, myself. I do believe that the players make far more than enough money for what they do, but I also know that it is a market fueled by supply and demand. It is the fault of the owners that things got this bad in the first place. A player is only worth as much as whatever an owner will pay for him. If the owners didn't want salaries to balloon like they did, they should have put a stop to it earlier, without taking things all the way to a lock out.

I have to wonder what the effects of the lock out will be in the long term. The leagues reputation has been damaged, and quite seriously at that. I think that things will be fine up here in Canada; we just want our hockey back at the end of the day. I don't have a clue what things will be like in the US however. I think that part of the problem that got things this far are all the expansion teams that really don't have the support to be viable contenders. They need the salary caps because they can't pull in enough support from the fans to make running the team worthwhile, especially with the current prices of players. It looks like the NHL wants to keep the thirty teams in the league though, and this may lead to similar problems down the road. I think the league would benefit from seriously considering cutting teams like Nashville and North Carolina. Hockey doesn't have the support there, and the league is expending valuable resources trying to make it work.

When it comes down to it, I'm just glad that we're going to have hockey again next year. It seems funny, but I've missed it, and I'm not even a huge fan. I have friends who were almost experiencing withdrawal like symptoms :P I just hope that the league can emerge from this intact, and present a good product to the public so that people can once again enjoy the great game of hockey. I have some unsettling doubts though; perhaps the damage has already been done?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ah...hockey. I've not missed it too bad because to fill the void it left I actually started to play ice hockey, I'm lieing I hate not having it, really hate it. I went to a Sheffield Steelers game, I listened in as the Philadelphia Phantoms went on their way to win the Calder cup, I was even happy to hear the Philly Flyers ECHL affiliate had won the Kelly cup. With all of the Philadelphia affiliates winning though I just couldn't shake the thought that maybe this should have been the year for a momentous triumvirate of wins. The Flyers came so close last year and this year it was winnable, I am sad to say the players we have were pretty old and they have now got simply a year old and winning gets a little bit harder I think. I love ice hockey, forget soccer (football, I tell you!), soccer can pretend to be my national sport but it's not the one I love. I've been starved from watching my Flyers play even if previously all I got were downloaded goal highlights and maybe 1 game every month or two on channel five, I will be ecstatic to have it back, Kalidor, you mentioned you had friends with almost withdrawal like symptoms? I did what I could but count me in as one of those people who truly didn't know what to do without getting an NHL hockey fix every week.

Enough of that rambling, onto what I think of the NHL's chances to make a great comeback. Well, truthfully. I think it's going to struggle in America, no one take this personally but I tend to see that Americans hold a grudge (actually it's more a good thing I'd say, keeps the sports from screwing them over badly because you don't forget it) when a sport shafts them like this, much like the F1 debacle of the other week I think this lockout will have a lasting effect on the casual fans of the NHL, they have likely forgotten about the NHL this season and really got into their other sports. I think it will of course do fine for the hardcore hockey fans in the states of America but the NHL will experience a period of significantly decreased revenues which makes it a great thing for the owners if they've managed to get salaries tied into the revenue of the league because they know it will take time for that to recoup.

The pay did rise disproportionately to the revenues the teams were receiving and Kalidor, you are right this is because the owners were willing to invest, they essentially shot themselves in the foot by inflating the prices of players by outbidding each other. The fans did nothing to help by chastising their owners if they did not do so however, look at the Boston Bruins, a financially prudent team in the context of the league but their fans see the ownership as tight-fisted and as such not as commited to their teams success. Whatever the owners do they experience backlash, I'm lucky in that being a flyers fan I know we have a dedicated owner in the guise of Ed Snider and he's always been willing to spend for the team to have the best possible chance, Comcast-Spectacor is also immensely rich that keeps them from worrying about getting that big player they need.

So to the cap. A cap is a good thing for parity I believe, I'm hoping there's a luxury tax and the cap can be exceeded because that suits my team (I'm selfish like that), the original stance of the players was to not accept any cap then no cap below $50m and then $45...etc. They were pushed lower and lower and now because of the ineptitude of Bob Goodenow they will receive a diminished deal, they sat too long and should have taken an earlier agreement from the league because it was only going to go down over time.

Jeremy Roenick is one of the most loud mouthed, opinionated people I have ever had the pleasure of reading about. He's such a character and I wouldn't have him shut up about things pertaining to the league and the CBA for the world, even if he's completely wrong (which in this case the opposite applies) he's at least speaking his mind and I respect him for that.

All in all, I can't wait to see my Flyers beating those pesky Devils (I'm looking at you Scarlet) in another best of seven series, I just hope to whatever god you believe in that they get this damn Collective Bargaining Agreement 100% sorted so I can watch the flyers and our new young players like Jeff Carter and Mike Richards get stuck into the opposition. I'm rambling again, this is just a subject that I feel strongly about (hockey in general I feel strongly about really).

On another note this is likely my least coherent and difficult to follow post ever.
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Scarlet Assassin

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
I just hope to whatever god you believe in that they get this damn Collective Bargaining Agreement 100% sorted


There is only one god, and his name is Lord Stanley.

I voted for the top one, but honestly that was out of wishful thinking. I know it's going to struggle, but I know plenty of people who will watch and go to the games (and I'm one of them.) Real NHL fans will never stray. And I can't wait to see the Devils wipe the floor with those lousy flyers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
And I can't wait to see the Devils wipe the floor with those lousy flyers.


If you ever needed to show someone an example of baiting...here's a good one. Who's the Atlantic division champions again? My memory is so bad at times.

Anyway things are looking good for hockey at the moment and I'm hoping the Flyers get a nice draft spot. I'm not holding out any hope they wind up with the first pick somehow I'd be happy to be in the top 10 or so, perhaps from there they can move up to the 4th spot and get Bobby Ryan. Bob Clarke the flyers GM is good friends with not only Bobby Ryan but his family as well, the Flyers really want to be able to select this kid.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I just wanna see my Rangers do something right for the first time since about 97 or so. Thats all I want, that and for Messier to retire a Ranger. I'm not asking to much, am I?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

If you want to talk about hockey you need to take into consideration the streak of twelve that the Vancouver canucks have going for them. Every twelve years they not only make it to the Cup final but do better each time. Last time they took it to seven games and lost. This time, the only thing left is to take it to seven games, and win. Thats my official prediction anyway since the twelve years are up this coming year.

Who do i think will be in the finals with them? Well it has always been that a team from New York is there with them so dont be surprised if it stays the same. I mean hey they've played the Islanders, and the Rangers. So maybe this coming season it will be the Buffalo Sabres losing to them in the finals. You never know.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hockey was a niche sport before this breuhaha, and it will become even more so now. It may have once been big in America, but I guarantee you 98% of Americans couldn't care less about it. For instance, in my hometown of Boston, we used to LOVE the Bruins, we used to be crazy about hockey. IIRC, we were one of the first teams too.

Now...hell, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who gives a damn about hockey anymore. Anyone who calls in to talk about it on the local radio stations gets laughed off the air. It's a joke.

Sorry guys, the sport doesn't have long to live, I don't think, especially with such great teams like Memphis and San Jose. :roll:
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
Sorry guys, the sport doesn't have long to live, I don't think, especially with such great teams like Memphis and San Jose.


Can't forget about those Minnesota Wild. A crazy bunch of winners is what they are!

Anyway, Things are looking down for the devils. Our salary cap is going to cost us a couple of players, possibly even Scott Stevens and Brian Rafalski.

As far as the Rangers go, Adam Graves just signed on as a "Special assistant" and is running their camp, not to mention helping out with the draft. Nice to have him back in NY, but it would've been better (My family's a bunch of Ranger's fans, and I hate hearing them complain) to see him skate.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh I forgot to talk about the part about recovery for the NHL or lack thereof following this obscenely long lockout. For one the management will never recover their reputations buisiness wise, since the fans for the most part sided with the players. The players, their image has been dirtied a bit in terms of those, who agreed with the owners but in the general census thats a minority at best.

Hockey itself will move on like it did the last time after a lockout. The league as a whole took a major hit thanks to the lockout especially the length of it. Mostly in the American market since the fan base with a few exceptions like New York, and Chicago are rather fickle when it comes to anything, much less sports. Not only did they lose the televising contract they had with Fox, not to mention almost lost the contract with ESPN. I would not be surprised if, some time down the line with the exception of places like Vancouver(where im from) that the league will consist of the "Original Six" with a few others thrown in. Montreal, while in financial straights at the moment will always be bought again by someone who wont take the team out of Montreal. The NHL is very specific about making sure the team stays there so take that for what it's worth.

I think this whole lockout will having lasting effects for quite some time, but it may or may not recover.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
For one the management will never recover their reputations business wise, since the fans for the most part sided with the players


I'm sorry but...what?

I'm pretty sure I mentioned it already but I'm a member on one of the larger online hockey websites out there that I know of and 90% of those people were pro-owner and felt the players greed was getting the best of them. They were asking for a proportion of revenue that was too large for the league as a whole to function on and so many people were far more angry at the players than the owners. Sure the consensus is we hate Gary Bettman as hockey fans but not as much as we hate Bob Goodenow for his treatment of hockey. I hope he is fired.

Out of a canon.

I don't suppose the league will contract, the purpose of this was to create an even playing field, to make sure the poorer teams like the Penguins and Blue Jackets were more able to do well, the fanbase will decline for a while but in places support will be as strong as ever, these are mostly the canadian markets and the big American market teams like the Rangers, Flyers and Wings. Even Minnesota have a strong fanbase for hockey despite being a poor team. I'm not saying it's going to be easy or as good as it was before but I don't think it's going to be that far off. I think the real hurt will have been inflicted through loss of a lot of the casual fans tuning in every now and again, the hardcore hockey fans will remain just as they were before for the most part.

Locke wrote:
that and for Messier to retire a Ranger


I just want him to retire! He's a legend but he's too old now to be that effective, give it up already.

Scarlet Assassin wrote:
Anyway, Things are looking down for the devils. Our salary cap is going to cost us a couple of players, possibly even Scott Stevens and Brian Rafalski


Seriously? With a roll back in salary I thought the devils would be fine. I've heard Neidermeyer was going to head elsewhere, maybe Vancouver back home or (don't hate me for saying so) Philadelphia is what I've heard. Of course every team in the league ought to be putting in an offer for this guy because he's a great defenceman.

Philadelphia are planning on buying out the contracts of a lot of their older more expensive players such as John LeClair, Tony Amonte and also Donald Brashear. We've got a lot of young players coming through in the likes of Patrick Sharp, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, RJ Umberger and Stefan Ruzicka. This will hopefully give them cap room to get someone like Pronger, Niedermeyer or Foote. Maybe even a half decent left winger as well. I really would love to have any of those three defenceman on my team, they'd add instant quality to an already good Blueline group. Hockey rant over.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Niedermeyer is pretty much already gone from what I've heard. There's supposedly little to no chance of keeping him confined to Jersey. THe next dilemma comes with, well do you drop Scott Stevens, leader of the team, defensive legend, and heart of the devils, who only has a few seasons left, or do you let Brian Rafalski, a younger, very talented player go in favor of keeping the captain? It looks as though we might be able to keep one of them, and possibly both if we drop a bunch of other talent. The real question is, is Scott Stevens worth dumping off 3 or 4 decent, young players?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Thats where the decision comes in for New Jersey. Unfortunately it happens with a lot of different teams every few years or so. It happened with the Canucks a couple of seasons after the last Stanley Cup Finals run. For that we traded away a lot of our cup team including, our goaltender, and our adopted son so to speak Trevor Linden. We also got Todd Bertuzzi in the deal but that is another issue for another time.

It wont be an easy thing to do for New Jersey, but it would be a wise move to go for a younger team and build towards the teams future. Neidermeyer, I wouldnt doubt would love to come over to Vancouver since he has family here. In fact a member of another board that I frequent is one of his cousins. Or so she says anyway, but I have no reason to believe she is lying, nor that she would have reason to do so. Whether he would be coming here to play, or not is another story all together. He does have a home here, so if he were to retire or something, I wouldnt be surprised if he came here anyway. Financially though with the new cap, and wanting to keep the team together for the most part I dont know whether we could afford to bring him in. Perhaps, if the ban on Todd Bertuzzi became permanent than obviously a spot would open up on the team for someone of his style of play.

I cant speak about Scott Stevens, because personally I have never really followed his career much. I have heard about him obviously, and watched a few games where he was playing. Aside from that I cant say much else about him. However, as I have said if he's running a little long in the tooth when it comes to hockey, it might be a good idea to let him go. Better to build the team with the young players now then leave it for later, when all you have is younger players.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I would love to see if Anaheim tried to pickup Neidermayer. I'm not sure how they're doing though. To the best of my recollection, Scotty boy had the highest plus minus against them in the cup series they played. (Strangely enough, his brother on the ducks had the LOWEST plus minus rating in that series.)

As far as Stevens go, he's probably got 2 or 3 seasons left tops, but he IS the devils pretty much. At this point, he and Broduer embody the team, so losing him would be a great detriment to not only the team, but the fans, the spirit, and most likely the bench from what I've heard of his leadership skills. But I agree, it's better to build a young team instead of hanging on to old fogies (*cough* New york Mets *cough*)

Also with the devil's head coach leaving for cancer treatments, they're going to need someone who's been around a while. However, this isn't the New Jersey Devils topic now is it? So I'll shut up.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You are right it isnt about the New Jersey Devils, however all of this factors into the NHL lockout, and it's effects anyway. If they need a leader, someone to coach the team while the coach is away, along with the assistant coach why not ask Stevens to step in. If he's getting too old to play, I am sure they could put him to good use on the bench as an assistant coach or something along those lines ya know?

What are everyones opinions on the new rule changes they are going to be instituting into the NHL next season. Namely the removal of the center red line eliminating two line passes for the most part, and instituting the shootout. Personally I dont like the fact they removed the red line, because then it becomes too easy to make crazy passes in games. Though I am one of the people who have been all for elimintating tie games from hockey by instituting a shootout. Much like in the olympics or the world championships. Thats just my take on it anyway.
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