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Suicide
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

anay....I wish i could show you to the DA post. but that possibly has 300+ replies. DAs forums can mess up the computer, but the person who made it, as many said "got their infomation of "eastren culture" from the media". I don't know what part of this person's sucide is good he wanted to say, i guess for those with incurable depression or how had hard lives.

i see no honor in angnst suicide. hell i somtimes wonder if I should be to. "Oh wow is me, that knife looks mighty friendly now, glistning, silvery freedom..."


the tea cup thing is..very intersting. were they hard to make? are they pretty? to what extent is the importance of the cermoney?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I know a lot more than the average person about suicide, and I'm not too happy about it. For a few years I went to a high school for emotionally distressed kids, and it was the most depressing thing ever. Not only did a handful of these kids actually kill themselves, but almost everyone cut themselves regularly, overdosed, did other self-harming things... It was a good place, but ugh.

I'll never be able to condone suicide because I've seen firsthand what it does to those left behind. I understand what it feels like to be depressed. I was medicated for years. You don't see the bigger picture, you just act horribly selfish without meaning to because your problems seem so huge and daunting and impossible, and you don't know what to do... Suicide can seem like the perfect solution, and maybe it is.

But when you go to a friend's funeral and everyone you know is there devastated and miserable, then the reality sets in and suicide is the furthest thing from your mind. I love my family and friends with all my heart, and I could never knowingly cause them harm. Besides, the depression is all gone now. I've been medication-free for six months, and I'm functioning like a normal person.
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm clinically depressed (and formally medicated) and I've had to deal with suicide many times in my teen years. I stopped taking medication because I decided I would rather be despressed and suicidal than happy over absolutely nothing. The medication would make me smile and giggle over things I normally would not have done so over, and that scared me more than suicide ever did. Even now (I'm almost 21) the suicidal urge still rears its ugly head from time to time. And all of you seem to be getting suicide wrong here. Let me clarify for you, because most of you seem to think of idiot goth chicks that cut thier wrists everytime they break up with thier boyfriends or thier mother grounds them. That's not just suicide. That's teen angst. And it doesn't truthfully represent most suicides.

Suicide is not a cry for attention. It is a cry for affection. The only thing I ever valued when I was a teenager was the friendship and love of those close to me. When that was taken from me, suicide seemed like all that mattered. When the ones you care about stop caring for you, what reason is there to live? That was my logic. And yes, I still feel that way. But I don't think I would off myself over it now, just move on and look for more friends. When I was at the height of my suicidal urges, the only people there for me were Internet friends, strangely enough. I value thier friendship almost as much as my local friends. I'll even say I'm bitter to those that knew I was suicidal and did everything in thier power to distance themselves from me when I was at my worst and ready to die. Some of them even said rather nasty things about me, which made everything worse. I just wanted to know that they cared, that someone out there cared, and they kicked dirt in my face. My Internet friends Shem and Billie (and not to forget the others too) pretty much saved my life.

Suicide is not selfish, to a suicidal person. This is always the thing that gets to me...saying that suicide is selfish. I can understand when an angsty teenager wants to make her mother and father feel bad and kills herself, but not all suicides are like that. The vast majority are not. I know that when I wanted to kill myself, I was under the impression that no one loved me. And when no one loves me, why would anyone care if I died? With that mindstate, a suicidal person feels that not killing thierself would be the selfish act. During my suicide, everyone assumed that I felt no one loved me because I was suicidal...the reality was the opposite. I was suicidal because I felt no one loved me. Too many times do people look at suicide and just say "it's selfish" and the only reason they say this is because they don't want to think about it anymore. It's easy to just say "its selfish" and never have to think about the details and reasons for someone's suicide or suicidal feelings. To a suicidal person, the word "selfish" never even occurs to them. Most suicidal people (like SARS said) do it quietly and away from everyone else. They also make a lot of "last minute" apologies and such. They might tell people they love them, give them cherished belongings, and then start severing thier contacts with people. They do everything in thier power to not hurt those that they feel still care about them. They find a quiet and isolated place to kill themselves and do it. You can argue that the act of killing oneself is the worst kind of hurt to those that care about the person, and you'd be right. But in the eyes of a suicidal person, that is nothing compared to the torment they're suffering through. When I was suicidal, I decided that it was time to tell some of my friends how I felt. I told some of my most trusted friends in high school. They never told me they cared, they never consoled me. They just told me that having me around made thier lives more depressing, and that I always "brought down the mood" No crap, really? That made me feel worse...they would complain about nothing else but how my presence made them feel wierd or how I brought them down; all while I was wanting to kill myself and looking for some kind of reason not to. A suicide never wants to hear that they're being selfish. That just makes them more suicidal.

And there is always more to a suicide than you see. As a spectator, all you really see is a sad person that wants to hurt themselves and probably those around them. But you have no true idea what is going on. Simply being sad is never enough to drive someone to suicide. There could be rape, molestation, incest, bullying, violence, drugs, racism, sexism, gay fear, poverty, parental abuse, and so many others. You'll likely never hear about it either. When a suicide is put into a newspaper or onto the TV no one wants to hear "he killed himself because his parents would beat him on a regular basis and he was bullied at school for being fat" or "he killed himself because he couldn't handle the years of incest and sexual abuse combined with gay fear at school" People just want to hear "He killed himself because he couldn't take life anymore" and they want to leave it at that. Not to mention that fact that parents are usually so distraught over the suicide that they don't want the details out in the public, especially if the suicide was partly because of them and the way they treated thier child. There is so much more to every suicide that no one ever hears about because the suicidal person keeps it private and perhaps tells only a few people.

Thats all for now. I would say more, but I've crap to do.
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Tendou Souji

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Forgive me for all the horrible-horrible things i've said previously in this post. I'm a horrible-horrible person.

Last edited by Tendou Souji on Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Admiral Ackbar

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

...I'm trying to find a reply somewhere in my head but nothing is happening.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

bah I feel like i live in looser-vill i'm quite sad and maybe depressed, I can't do anything right and i have little motovation, ambition and what not. you know, os its just all "why bother" I'm not really suicidal but eh who knows. maybe I'll join the ranks, if only now I were a agnsty 14 year old, telling everyone i cut myself will bring kudos. those dumb kids get it enogh. or I can just grate my head with a micro plane and eat the shavings.

everyting is usless right now. oh well. I'll just watch people scream at eachother in the suicide topic.
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St. Ajora

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm surprised that I didn't notice that reply before. To be honest, I am quite appalled and a little embarrassed at this reply, and I most certainly hope that earlier on in the thread, that I did not sound like that. Those of us who are arguing against or suicide, or defending the actions of those who are affected by suicidal tendencies, are all generalising. Not all suicidals are attention whores, and not all suicidals are clinically depressed or unbalanced, and everyone should KNOW this when we they read our responses. However, what is written above, especially following Blue Thunder's personal response, is just cruel.



Quote:
Suicide, is an act of foolery(as mentioned above; no one messes with what Mr.T says!), cowardice, and a despiseful, not to mention despickable act. Suicide, is also selfish. They don't care about what others might think of them when they're gone. Don't they realize that when they die, someone will cry for their death and mourn them?


To rub this in someone's face is incredibly ignorant and inconsiderate. I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread (and above) that many suicides go unreported because they were done by people who simply do not need to feed off of someone else's sympathy. They really needed help, and they didn't get their 15 minutes of fame doing so. Instead, they took their own lives quietly, and sadly. Cowardice? Perhaps, but I don't think that you, someone who doesn't have the decency to be a little more respectful, have the right to throw words like that around in this case. In a number of scenarios, no one CARES when they are gone, and that is the reason that these people are dead.

Quote:
Someone is always sad when a life is lost. Someone always cries. Someone always cares. Don't let that someone cry. Even if you don't know that someone. Oh sure, they say they can't take it, they can't handle the pressure of their lives, but THAT'S life. Harsh, but along the way you find many fields of flowers. They're running away from the truth. They are afraid, impatient, and FOOLS!. They surrendered even before the battle even started! They didn't have the courage to face what misfortune that befalls on them. The impatience fools them. That's what really triggers the suicides. Their mental is as easy to break/rip/whatever destructive actions as paper!


How dare you call someone else a fool for hurting themselves. I don't endorse such behaviour, but to tell someone who is instable, that they have no right to "surrender" before the "battle's even begun" is very judgemental. You tell that to a girl who has just been raped. Hey that's life, stop running away from the truth. Yeah I'm sure she'll accept that after she's gone. Even better, call her a fool. I'm sure you would think that it's her fault that she got raped too. The rest of your paragraph proves that you have absolutely no scientific evidence to back your insane arguement.


Quote:
PERFECT SOLUTION? :*laugh*: I LAUGH at that speculation/theory! Face it, nothing's perfect, and suicide ain't abit near; it's even far-far away from the term "good"!
Now, THINK POSITIVE, people!


Of course suicide isn't the perfect solution, but for someone who isn't in a positive (or even healthy) frame of mind, they think so. But it's more than just trying to "think positive". If it were that easy, mental instability and disorders wouldn't be so widespread.

Quote:
AND THAT, my fellow forumers, is the problem today, tomorrow, and who knows when if we don't start giving attention to people like that and do something to make their lives better and prevent them from committing suicide.


The sad fact is, that some just can't accept help. They can't even help themselves. It is very very frustrating to try and get someone back on their feet and moving on with their lives for the better when they cannot accept this realization that they have to, in order to better themselves. And when you can do no more...all you can do is watch...many suidicals have loving parents and friends and a good home...but that doesn't stop them from thinking the way that they do for whatever reason.

I think that you have the right idea, but as it stands now, you have absolutely no idea what it's like for people that go through these trials and tribulations. I'll always be someone who argues against suicide and how it is a permanent solution to a temporary problem, but that does not excuse myself, or anyone, from judging and speaking harshly to someone who has chosen to share their tender version of the story.
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Saben

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suicide is not an act of strength of weakness, especially in teenagers. It is an act of desperation. Gay teens are about 3 times more likely to commit suicide than their heterosexual counterparts and I think this tells you something about the nature of suicide. Suicide is first and foremost about a lack of optimism and a lack of hope. It is self-centred but FAR from selfish and it is very closed-minded in believing that things will always be as bad as they are now, or worse.

As a gay teen growing up with a strong religious background I've been suicidal, of course I have, although there is only about twice that I was prepared to go through with it. Quite often depressed people feel like they want to die, but having suicidal desires and being suicidal are quite distinct in my experience. The problem however lies in working out where that distinction lies.

To say suicide isn't logical is to underestimate how much logic can be bent. To me when I felt suicidal it was the MOST logical option. "There is no point to life, quite literally. Whether you are happy or depressed you die anyway, regardless of whether or not humans as a race survive or not there is no actual purpose. I might as well die, it doesn't matter." It's very cold logic, yet logic none the less.

I am no longer depressed enough to consider suicidea viable option and I know I have too much to live for, I love myself enough to believe that I make people's lives better rather than worse. When I had suicidal thoughts a lot of it was projecting how I felt about myself onto other people, I hated myself, I hated being gay, I hated my appearance, personality and lack of popularity. I thought that I was not worth the air I was breathing. I thought I'd be doing the world a favour to die. And I was remarkably wrong.

So now I acknowledge suicide as legitimate and I never condemn someone that goes through with it. I never try and talk someone out of suicide or brush off their feelings as inaccurate but I DO try and talk them into positive action utilising how they are feeling as energy rather than hating themselves for being depressed. Depression is cyclical- quite often depressed people make themselves more depressed by hating the fact that they are depressed. But the cycle can be broken one of two ways, one way is suicide and the other way, well, I don't even know how it happened with me. But it did. Suicide is never an attempt for unwarrented attention, if someone is suicidal because they need attention then it is probably because they need attention.
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Baka

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Suicide. That is one word that seems to be easier than said than to be done. Like what mr. Saben had said... It's an act of desperation. Who knows what it may symbolize... strength or weakness...

Some may say it's strength but taking your own life is more to foolishness. It is like taking something that is not yours... you are bestowed life by your parents... by god. People who suicide usually think they are not loved, they are suffering, or god's picking on them. But if you would stop and sit down. Calm yourself and listen to your body, think through your life, remember there are still people caring about you and compare yourself to millions outside there... they too have their own problem. They too seeking eternal peaceful... but not in suicide.

From personal experience, two friends suicided and I almost did the same, but I did not. This sentence changed my life, "You keep on walking... you should sometime stop and look back... There are people you loved behind you. Waiting for you to reach their hand." Those words was said by my teacher. It changed me. May not make an impact to all of you but it did to me. :roll:

Suicide is not a matter of weakness or strength... it's the matter of THE WAY YOU THINK. You should sometime ask your brain to just shut the hell up and rest. That's how I cope until today anyway.
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kuwaizair

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Oh ho, well see if you are married with children and support people, and you are being relied on, or people need you, then killing yourself is well pretty bad, then no benifit. or is you are usleless who knows.

so what is worse? dying in anyway you chose or killing your personality? maybe the latter is reversable...prehaps its the same, peole will still assume 'you' are around. but I just wonder if its "just as bad".

the'll cry and morn but stare at you asking "where is so and so that i knew? what happend" all 'you' do is look back and laugh how good it was that the have gone and now 'you' are a better perosn.
or so I'm thking now. why die when you can just drasticly change? throw away all you love and embrase all you snubbed? is still a kind of death.

I don't know. Its almost swaying the topic into a differnt place.
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Baka

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well everyone have their own problem, but we also have different perspective in our head. One may say suicide will end everything but you are actually more to "escaping reality" In the end, the regret is still there. Besides, every problem have a solution, If only people would sometime walk slower, things would be better. "walking slower" such as to help others, look around and interact. I mean, we are like living in a fast pacing life! Sometime we just need to stop for a while and smell the blooming flowers in the park...

Ok Ok... I'm using a lot of phrases... I do not know how to really explaint it. To put it simply is that... you just have to TAKE A BREAK! :P
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Erinyes

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

there are three types of suiciding

suiciding because of heavy problems and etc.,

suiciding because you want to protect others

suiciding because of something I don't know


comments:

in the first one, those are for idiots...this is life. life is only given once and will be thrown away? no way! if you have problems, at least die wisely!

throwing your life away is also idiotic. It was never good to throw your life away even for others. That is not heroic..that is idiotic. Heroic is to save someone from dying physically/emotionally and you wouldn't kill yourself for that because you yourself then is a victim who has no hero this time

I forgot.... :?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I am a huge supporter of suicide, and I guess I should explain why:

Life isn't fair. We've all heard this said more times than we can remember. And it's absolutely true. It isn't, never has been, and probably never will be. Everyone throws out this phrase, but how many of them actually try to change that fact? I'm sure the answer is very few. I don't consider that a bad thing though. The reason so few try is because of where we've come as a race. To make life fair, we'd have to change the entire face of society. That's impossible. We dug our pit of unfairness, and now we can't climb out.

Next, I'd like everyone who decided to be born into this world to raise their hands. No hands? Now isn't that interesting. None of us asked to be born into this world filled with murders, deception, lying, cheating, etc. We are basically forced to take on the burdens of human society. So many unfair expectations placed upon us.

Now if we were born into this unfair life without our consent, I would think the most minimal right we should have is choosing how and when we live it. If I don't want this responsiblity, I refuse to deal with it.

In my opinion, life isn't as precious as a lot of people want you to believe. Death is just too commonplace for me to think that. A bunch of people die each day, and bunch are born each day. Deaths in the news, no matter the magnitude, get nothing more than a "meh" from me.

So I don't know what occurs after death. I don't know if there is some God who gave me life. I really don't care if there is. I never asked him to. What kind of being brings another into existence only to force it to live by it's rules or else face punishment? It's just so illogical (or cruel). This is why I usually ignore those who say "God gave you life blah blah don't kill yourself etc." You can't create me and expect me to live by your motto that life is precious when everything in this world shows the opposite.

As for the whole "You're hurting your family by doing it. It's selfish," thing, I look at it from a different perspective. I believe it's the family members who are being selfish. Parents have these kids, and if these kids grow up to be depressed, suicidal teens or adults, the family is pretty much just saying "Tough it out. You'll break OUR hearts." Then comes the therapy and drugs, all to prevent the family from some agony, and preventing to suffering youth from utilizing a solution that's permanent and works everytime.

Finally, suicide isn't a sign of weakness. I personally believe it takes a lot of strength to do it. I've tried, but my cowardice kept me from going as far as I could/should have. I think one of the strongest things a person could do is take their own life into their hands and end it if they so wish. It takes courage to go to the next step of existence (supposing there is a next step) of your own free will.

...Damn! I know there's something else I wanted to say, but my mind is blank now...urgh!
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St. Ajora

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Erinyes wrote:
there are three types of suiciding

suiciding because of heavy problems and etc.,

suiciding because you want to protect others

suiciding because of something I don't know


comments:

in the first one, those are for idiots...this is life. life is only given once and will be thrown away? no way! if you have problems, at least die wisely!

throwing your life away is also idiotic. It was never good to throw your life away even for others. That is not heroic..that is idiotic. Heroic is to save someone from dying physically/emotionally and you wouldn't kill yourself for that because you yourself then is a victim who has no hero this time

I forgot.... :?


Yes, I see that you have a very firm grasp of suicide and heroic deeds :roll:

Quote:
I am a huge supporter of suicide, and I guess I should explain why:

Life isn't fair. We've all heard this said more times than we can remember. And it's absolutely true. It isn't, never has been, and probably never will be. Everyone throws out this phrase, but how many of them actually try to change that fact? I'm sure the answer is very few. I don't consider that a bad thing though. The reason so few try is because of where we've come as a race. To make life fair, we'd have to change the entire face of society. That's impossible. We dug our pit of unfairness, and now we can't climb out


This is perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. Life isn't fair so let's kill ourselves? Society sucks so let's go to that great castle in the sky? Please. You've just proved that there are people out there who commit suicide because they can't get over their whiny selves. If life isn't fair, then make it fair. If you don't like society, get over yourself, stop wallowing in angst and do something about it. The world certainly isn't very nice, and fair is a very very subjective term. There are lots of people whom have been through so much, that we can't even imagine- but they wouldn't give up on the precious gift that life is. That's incredibly selfish. To make society fair, we have to identify our problems and work to solve them together, not overdose. Great answers for life's many questions you have there. If life sucks, we end it. How very inspiring.

Quote:
Next, I'd like everyone who decided to be born into this world to raise their hands. No hands? Now isn't that interesting. None of us asked to be born into this world filled with murders, deception, lying, cheating, etc. We are basically forced to take on the burdens of human society. So many unfair expectations placed upon us


So that justifies suicide? This is a really big cop out. No, no one asked to be born into a world with horrors- but no one was born into a world to just do nothing either. if you don't want to do anything, as you seem to suggest, then someone of your mentality is even more cowardly than they already come off as. There's no good in whining about problems and then telling us that you're not willing to do anything about them. or are you? All you're doing is moaning about the bad things, and not even stepping up to acknowledge them and work at them.

Quote:
Now if we were born into this unfair life without our consent, I would think the most minimal right we should have is choosing how and when we live it. If I don't want this responsiblity, I refuse to deal with it.


Ah yes, life is so hard living inside of a box...such a big responsibility.

Quote:
So I don't know what occurs after death. I don't know if there is some God who gave me life. I really don't care if there is. I never asked him to. What kind of being brings another into existence only to force it to live by it's rules or else face punishment?


What kind of a human stands by to watch his race suffer after repeatedly bitching about how devilish they become? What kind of a human blames our problems on a being that it deems as non existant?

Quote:
Parents have these kids, and if these kids grow up to be depressed, suicidal teens or adults, the family is pretty much just saying "Tough it out. You'll break OUR hearts." Then comes the therapy and drugs, all to prevent the family from some agony, and preventing to suffering youth from utilizing a solution that's permanent and works everytime.


Yes because every parent trying to help their suicidal teenager is because they are trying to spare their own pain and grief. Good on you for making a baseless, worthless, false generalisation. It really shows you've put some thought into these things.

Quote:
Finally, suicide isn't a sign of weakness. I personally believe it takes a lot of strength to do it.


A pity that you can't call upon that strength to change the things around you that you dislike. A lot of strength indeed.
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Siertes




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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

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This is perhaps one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. Life isn't fair so let's kill ourselves? Society sucks so let's go to that great castle in the sky? Please. You've just proved that there are people out there who commit suicide because they can't get over their whiny selves. If life isn't fair, then make it fair. If you don't like society, get over yourself, stop wallowing in angst and do something about it. The world certainly isn't very nice, and fair is a very very subjective term. There are lots of people whom have been through so much, that we can't even imagine- but they wouldn't give up on the precious gift that life is. That's incredibly selfish. To make society fair, we have to identify our problems and work to solve them together, not overdose. Great answers for life's many questions you have there. If life sucks, we end it. How very inspiring.


Not everyone has the strength to change the world around them into something better. Plus, everyone has limits to what they can handle emotionally. Something you may find trivial, another may find overwhelming. Even so, magnitude of the mental anguish isn't the issue, and I'm not telling everyone who thinks life sucks should kill themselves. I'm just saying that there should be no contest to them doing so.

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So that justifies suicide? This is a really big cop out. No, no one asked to be born into a world with horrors- but no one was born into a world to just do nothing either. if you don't want to do anything, as you seem to suggest, then someone of your mentality is even more cowardly than they already come off as. There's no good in whining about problems and then telling us that you're not willing to do anything about them. or are you? All you're doing is moaning about the bad things, and not even stepping up to acknowledge them and work at them.


Saying that no one was born into this world to do nothing isn't entirely false. Nor is it entirely true. We are born into this world and are expected to do something. Nature expects us to reproduce and further the species. Society expects to work and further civilization. There is no evidence of some mythical purpose to our being here. This is what is expected of us in life. Those who don't want to do anything about their lives or have anything to do with life aren't being cowards. They are simply (in a way) defying the expectations placed upon them.

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Ah yes, life is so hard living inside of a box...such a big responsibility.


I guess it's a matter of opinion how much of a responsibility life is.

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What kind of a human stands by to watch his race suffer after repeatedly bitching about how devilish they become? What kind of a human blames our problems on a being that it deems as non existant?


A human with the strength to do nothing else but judge, blame, and point out possible wrongs in the universe.

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Yes because every parent trying to help their suicidal teenager is because they are trying to spare their own pain and grief. Good on you for making a baseless, worthless, false generalisation. It really shows you've put some thought into these things.


If the pain and grief that the loss of a child caused parents didn't exist, then the only reason they'd want to help them is so they wont have to pay for the funeral. Then of course religion can come into play, but I wont touch on that cause that's where debate ends. Besides, whats wrong with a generalization? The world is full of them. "Every persons life is precious, we all have a purpose." All generalizations based around opinions. I suppose that's what most of this topic consists of...

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A pity that you can't call upon that strength to change the things around you that you dislike. A lot of strength indeed.


I suppose we're talking about two totally different types of strengths.
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