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Yumi
Mysics of the Forlorn
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 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Hrestelan wrote: |
However, in 4 I see very little ties compared to before. In fact, being set 150 years before the first, it's like a sidestory, a stand-alone game that has nothing to do at all with the rest of the series. That's the impression I had personally and that's why I say that's FF-like.
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I have to disagree with this statement entirely. Just because the game does not take place around the immediate time frame of the first three, it clearly is not a "stand alone game". The Suikoden series features a huge world, with a very detailed and complex history. That is one of the major things that makes this series stand out as great. I see Suikoden IV as being a game that is merely trying to fill in some of the blanks of that history, in order to make an even more complete world. It is still the same world, with the same concepts and nuances. Since the timeline of the series already details events even further in the past than Suikoden IV, and many already known characters' existances predate the time of the game, I hardly see the game taking place 150 years in the past as "stand alone" in the slightest. If they start making Suikoden games that take place thousands years apart, or not even on the same world, THEN you got an argument. For now, however, this argument for claiming Suikoden is becoming too FF like is weak, at best. |
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GrimmHooke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:18 am Post subject: |
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People who think Suikoden is becoming "more like Final Fantasy" have apparently not played enough RPGs.
Games change, yo; if they didn't we would end up playing the same game over and over again. 3-D graphics and voice-acting can be good things, as well as bad: that really depends upon how they are executed. The same terms work with a plotline and character development, as well.
There are similar elements among all RPGs, and any one can be compared to another. It's not like Square invented the genre (though it did develop its popularity).
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Icebergin
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:22 am Post subject: |
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oooh, first off I'd like to remind you, that I did say "in my humble opinion". I'm sorry you took offense to it.
However, the facts remain the same...
SUIKODEN IS BECOMING MORE DRAGON QUEST LIKE! BECAUSE IT HAS SEQUALS!
I rest my case.
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Hrestelan
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Seems like you all are putting too much depth in the "Suikoden is becoming FF-like!" thing. For me it's only a way of saying how disgusted am I with the drastic change in the timeline. Sure that is the same world and all, but being 150 years in the past you can't look forward to any mention of the past games, because they haven't taken place! And that was one of the most great features of Suikoden, the continuous story.
I don't have to remind you all about how close were S1 & 2, so much that some people even claimed that Suikoden 2 could be 1.5 (not that I agree with that). Now about S3, it was some breakout but still had some good things. Luc & Sasarai's matter was resolved, we learn that Viktor dropped the Zodiac Sword, we get to see Futch and learn about what happened to him and so on.
I may change my opinion after playing 4, but just now it seems like they are starting another Suikoden series altogether.
Oh, and one more thing, to Icebergin. You think you can insult anyone without sounding offensive just because you put "in my humble opinion" there? Guy, cut off your veins. |
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Hrestelan wrote: |
| Seems like you all are putting too much depth in the "Suikoden is becoming FF-like!" thing. For me it's only a way of saying how disgusted am I with the drastic change in the timeline. |
Well I think I don't put too much dept in the thing because we all know that Suikoden series is very different compared to FF series. So when people (not only you) start to say that they are getting similar, it confused me to be honest. It just seems that the similarity is being based on the small things rather than what made Suikoden series as Suikoden series and what made FF series as FF series.
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| Sure that is the same world and all, but being 150 years in the past you can't look forward to any mention of the past games, because they haven't taken place! And that was one of the most great features of Suikoden, the continuous story. |
What continuous story? Gate Rune War ended in S1. Dunan Unification War ended in S2. Fire Bringer War (or whatever it's called) ended in S3. Related nations, timeline, characters? Yes. Continuous story? Not at all. The story ended right at the end of each game.
The continuous story seem to only occur for the non-hero characters story (such as Viktor-Neclord or Clive-Elza etc), which isn't the main point of the game. Hence, should only be considered as a sidepoint rather than big enough to annoy you. But even so, character story might also still being related in S4 as well.
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| I don't have to remind you all about how close were S1 & 2, so much that some people even claimed that Suikoden 2 could be 1.5 (not that I agree with that). Now about S3, it was some breakout but still had some good things. Luc & Sasarai's matter was resolved, we learn that Viktor dropped the Zodiac Sword, we get to see Futch and learn about what happened to him and so on. |
And what makes you think that S4 cannot give anything at all to the history? The returning characters would most likely get their stories explained as well. That's just the same as learning what happened to Futch, etc. No difference, just different timeline.
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| I may change my opinion after playing 4, but just now it seems like they are starting another Suikoden series altogether. |
I think this is a misconception by you. By starting a new series altogether, that would mean that S4 had to be the starting point of all the things. But that's definitely not the case here because we've known that some things would have to be coherent of what happened in S1-S3 (so for example: we know that Windy and Leknaat had the Front and Gate Rune. So if they were to appear, they would have those runes instead of let's say Beast Rune or whatnot).
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Glen Cott
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I think it all depends on what someons perception what defines Suikoden and what defines FF
Someone might say that Suikoden become 3-D the same as FF became 3-D and use that fact to show that it's becoming more like FF, which is a perfectly acceptable statement.
On the other hand, someone could say that since Suikoden still has 108 characters, whereas FF doesn't, it isn't becoming like FF at all, which is also perfectly acceptable.
It is my opinion that the plot to save the world defines FF so as soon as a Suikoden game has a plot, in which the hero saved the world from some all-powerful demon, then I will say that it has become more like FF, but not yet. |
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Darkmagus
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of the events are connected. I remember someone once before made the theory that Luca Blight picked the time to attack Jowstone because it was right after a war with Toran that resulted from the Gate Rune War.
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Icebergin
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Hrestelan... in my humble opinion, yes I can. And if it were an insult, I would have used words far better than "idiot." But alas... I'll let you hear what I have to say on your post.
Yeah, Suikoden 4 takes place 150 years in the past... so what? This thread is about how Suikoden is becoming more FF-like. And it's not.
| Quote: |
I may change my opinion after playing 4, but just now it seems like they are starting another Suikoden series altogether.
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Also, I read this and nearly died. Of COURSE they're starting a new Suikoden, one of thier key components (and forgive me, because I'm no good with Japanese names) Murayama (?) left Konami.
Still, so what if it's in the past? I'm sorry that Viktor and Flik won't be reoccuring, I'm sorry that you won't be able to play as McDohl. But you know what? I'm damn excited to learn about a part of Suikoden History never before seen. It would be cool to revisit Gregminister, or whatever... But I'm excited that they're giving me more information about these places that they only MENTIONED!
We don't know what kind of things will be revealed... maybe we'll find out about Hikusaak, maybe we'll find out about the previous owner of the True Wind Rune, maybe we'll learn more about the Village of the Hidden Rune, or maybe we'll just find some insight on Ted.
I quote some magazine somewhere as saying:
"Suikoden 4 will be to Suikoden 1 as Suikoden 3 was to Suikoden 2."
And if taking place 150 years in the past makes it FF-Like (which is what this topic is about) then just start calling me "Cid" because I'm becoming more FF-like for likeing it.
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GrimmHooke
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Icebergin wrote: |
oooh, first off I'd like to remind you, that I did say "in my humble opinion". I'm sorry you took offense to it.
However, the facts remain the same...
SUIKODEN IS BECOMING MORE DRAGON QUEST LIKE! BECAUSE IT HAS SEQUALS! |
Another mystery solved, Detective Icebergin!
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Himuro
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I think Ice hit this topic pretty much spot on. |
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Icebergin
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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What? Do you want me to pose or something!
*walks away* Sheesh...
*comes running back for a huge POSE!*
HAHA! JUST FOR YOU ALL!
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Aurelien
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| Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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You simply can't fail to amuse me, Icebergin. Good on you. =)
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Axiose
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| Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Certainly a credit to Highland ;)
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