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Final Fantasy like?
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Cirape




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:16 pm    Post subject: Final Fantasy like? Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've seen people say it a few times, but I've always been confused by it.
Quote:
Suikoden is becoming more Final Fantasy like

they say. But I don't really see it--perhaps because I don't know the Final Fantasy series that well. And thus...
For those of you who agree with the above quote, can you please explain your reasoning as to why?
What set Suikoden apart from Final Fantasy before? What, exactly, has changed to close the gap between the two? And is that a good thing or a bad thing?
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Wiseman

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I am not a person who agrees with that quote, but I will tell you basically what separates the two. Suikoden is a continuous game, all the games take place in the same world, all the Final Fantasy's but one (Final Fantasy 10: 2, which was a horrible sequel anyways) have never had sequels, all taking place on different worlds and with different characters (Cid, Biggs, and Wedge don't count...). Something else that majorly seperates Suikoden from FF is the amount of characters. Every Suikoden has 108, while the most FF has ever had was 14 (FF6). The only reason I could think of why people are saying that is because each Suikoden game is becoming more and more individualized, with less returning characters and less returning to places we've visited in previous games. It is still all one story being told though that will be tied all together at the end, and it is a great one none the less.
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Elc

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The only way I could see Suikoden becoming "Final Fantasy-like" is in the graphical upgrade department. Unless I'm missing something, I haven't seen a large number of cutscenes in Suikoden III, which is also something the Sony-era Final Fantasy games have become famous for.

Other than that, there is no comparison between the two series, they are just so different that the core of Suikoden bears no resemblance to Final Fantasy. My guess is that the people who have made the comments are either unfamiliar with Suikoden or Final Fantasy, or they mean it in a more broader sense, as in Suikoden is becoming more mainstream.
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Kuromimi




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Each Suikoden can be compared to an even numbered Final Fantasy. Check it out!

Suikoden I and Final Fantasy IV: Considered to be the best in the series by very few people. The hero starts off in a castle taking orders from his king, but eventually changes sides after discovering how 'evil' (not really) he his. Suikoden I was the first Suikoden on the PS1 and Final Fantasy IV was the first Final Fantasy on the SNES.

Suikoden II and Final Fantasy VI: Considered to be the best in the series by practically everyone who has played the series. In their opinion, the series has done nothing but gone downhill after this one. Both also seem to have lunatics for enemies: Luca Blight/Kefka. Both are supposedly the best villians of all time.

Suikoden III and Final Fantasy VIII: Considered to be the worst or the best in the series. The reason for both opinions is the same: Change.

If this keeps up:
Suikoden IV and Final Fantasy X: You decide what they may have in common. I'm sure you're all hoping there won't be a Suikoden IV-2. =P
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luc




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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well the swithing partys in FF10 and about the graphics every thing is staring to use the type of graphics that ff use but I like water color art
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Jurhael




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think it's the storyline in Suikoden 3 that made people think that it's like a Final Fantasy game. "Destroy the World" was often used in Final Fantasy, but in Suikoden 3 , it's in a different slant, so to speak, but not much of a different slant.

I don't think Suikoden 3 is the weakest, but I also don't think it's the strongest. I did like FF8, but not as much as FF 4, 6 or X/X-2.
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Gwendal




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Kuromimi: Those simillarities are pretty shallow, though...lots of stories feature a hero who realizes his King is evil, or has a madman as the villain. And isn`t FFVII widely regarded as the best game in the series, not VI? Not that I feel that way, but...

Anyway, the two series aren`t that similliar...even with the "Save the world" thing in S3, Suikoden uses a very different style.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I think most people who do think that Suikoden series is becoming more and more like Final Fantasy series based it on something called change. Since the first two Suikoden games are different than Final Fantasy series, the change made them similar to FF series. Especially since there were few returning characters in S3. That ticked some fans though I'm sad if Suikoden game should rely on returning characters rather than the storyline.

Some people also said that the "no world map in S3" is one of the reason why it's getting more and more like FF series. I disagree very much with this because there's nothing wrong at all with trying to use that kind of map. I mean, point and click map is not what made FF series as FF series. So just because S3 used the same kind of map shouldn't be considered as getting more and more like FF series.

I honestly think that there isn't one single good solid reason for anyone to consider Suikoden series becoming more and more like FF series. All the reasons that I've seen are basically just the small things and not significant enough to say that Suikoden series are becoming more like FF series.
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Kuromimi




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Just so everyone knows, my above response should not be taken seriously. I was just joking around. ^^
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Icebergin




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

People who say Suikoden is becoming more like Final Fantasy, in my humble opinion, are idiots.

For one, no two FFs have ANYTHING to do with each other with the exception of X/X-2 and Tactics Advance/FFXII. All the Suikodens take place in a world with history and when happens in one game affects/is mentioned in others. All the Suikodens have some sort of war and/or stratigic thinking-man's game envolved. You won't see any of that in Final Fantasy.

*SUIKODEN 3 SPOILER WARNING*

And Suikoden 3 WASN'T about "SAVING THE WORLD" for those of you who missed it. It was about Redemption, changing destiny! Luc didn't seek to end the world. He wanted to change the fate of mankind and end his own suffering. It wasn't until he was about to die that he finally realized that man can change his fate, he wasn't bound by the True Runes, and that even he has a SOUL!

Sure, your party "saves the world" from Luc destroying the rune, but you WEREN'T saving if from some unknown gigantic power from beyond. There was no Ultima Weapon, and quite frankly the only thing Suikoden and FF have in common are that they are roleplaying games, and the party seeks to stop the antagonist. That's pretty basic. In fact it's so basic that you could even say that Suikoden is Chrono Trigger-like! THEY BOTH HAVE the UNITES~LOL!@

Or it's just like saying Suikoden is like the King of Fighters series, because they both have a ton of characters to choose from!

Personally, I like a world with a History that is continued to be developed, which is why I love Suikoden. The day they stop making Suikoden, I'm going to Japan and blowing myself up in front of Konami in protest... not other people, just me. It's more powerful a statement that way. lol

I think Kuromimi sumed it up, with his little summaries (which were hilarious) and that you're being nit-picky... Or maybe you just liem Suikoden because it's not "mainstream" and it makes you "cool..." I'd love a mainstream Suikoden. Why? MORE PRODUCTS.

[/end rant]
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Darkmagus




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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bugg wrote:
Some people also said that the "no world map in S3" is one of the reason why it's getting more and more like FF series. I disagree very much with this because there's nothing wrong at all with trying to use that kind of map. I mean, point and click map is not what made FF series as FF series. So just because S3 used the same kind of map shouldn't be considered as getting more and more like FF series.


This 'click and point' thing isn't a final fantasy thing either, I remember Grandia using it. In my eyes, the point and click thing belongs more to Grandia than too Final Fantasy.

As for storyline, Luc was trying to clash with dharma and chaos. I don't remember any Final Fantasy that mentions anything about dharma and chaos. At least not in the way Luc was talking about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Also the Suikoden's have a more life like feel with corolations to the different nations being based on nations throughout our real time based history. Discounting the magic involved Suikoden just gives you a better feel of reality.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Icebergin wrote:
People who say Suikoden is becoming more like Final Fantasy, in my humble opinion, are idiots.


First off, read this thread in order to learn some manners.

http://www.suikox.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=298

On with the topic, I only started saying that Suikoden is becoming FF-like after information about IV was released. Suikoden III sure was different, but was also unique in its own way.

However, in 4 I see very little ties compared to before. In fact, being set 150 years before the first, it's like a sidestory, a stand-alone game that has nothing to do at all with the rest of the series. That's the impression I had personally and that's why I say that's FF-like.

And the continuous appearance of Jeane is starting to look like the Cid syndrome in FF. However, and thank god, I'm sure Suikoden will never suck as much as some FFs do, in my humble opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
And the continuous appearance of Jeane is starting to look like the Cid syndrome in FF. However, and thank god, I'm sure Suikoden will never suck as much as some FFs do, in my humble opinion.


Firstly Cid was never the same character in each Final Fantasy appearance. He was always a completely different person. Just because Jeanne appears, does not make her a throw away character like Cid.

In my opinion Bugg and Icerbergin said it best. People liken Suikoden to Final Fantasy because it changed to 3D, it had a different world map (which in my memory, no FF ever had - but I've never, and will never, play FFX).

Suikoden has my of a soul in my mind as it full of a constant feel of nostalgia. Final Fantasy always seemed to go towards flashy graphics and seems to reuse tried stories. Suikoden is far more complex and less shalow. Just because graphics improve and the developers experiment with new techniques and systems, does not mean Suikoden is becoming more like Final Fantasy.
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Aurelien

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Hrestelan wrote:
However, in 4 I see very little ties compared to before. In fact, being set 150 years before the first, it's like a sidestory, a stand-alone game that has nothing to do at all with the rest of the series. That's the impression I had personally and that's why I say that's FF-like.

I don't get it. Every Suikoden game *is* a stand-alone game because they are not directly related to the other Suikoden games either. What connection do you think S3 and S2 had? With the exception of few returning characters, nothing at all. The war had nothing to do with Dunan Unification War (which is S2 was about). Or what connection do you think S3 and S1 had? Any connection at all with Gate Rune War? No, nothing.

Same thing goes for S4 (not sure whether I'm allowed to mention it here or not), but S4 is just like any other Suikoden game. A stand alone game that has small ties to the other games. That's about it.

Quote:
And the continuous appearance of Jeane is starting to look like the Cid syndrome in FF. However, and thank god, I'm sure Suikoden will never suck as much as some FFs do, in my humble opinion.

As mentioned by Fliktor, the Cids are always different people whereas Jeane is being pushed as if she's the same person (we don't know yet whether she's the same or not). No similarities at all compared to Cid who only have same names.
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